The PHILCO Phorum
Need model info 38-5, 46-131, 48-640 - Printable Version

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Need model info 38-5, 46-131, 48-640 - phly guy - 05-19-2008

Hello,

Great site, already learned a bunch. I've recently come into 3 Philcos; 2 bakelites and a console.

I've got schematics for all three thank goodness, but I have a few other questions.

All of these radios are complete (case and chassis) with only some tubes missing. I intend to put them all back into service. Can I/should I dare try to power them back up without recapping them?

Anyone else have a 38-5x console? I get to pick mine up in a few weeks. I managed to get one complete with chassis and tubes. Looks so far like the veneer is in pretty good shape with only some slight delam near the back edge on one side. The finish is warn on top and parts of the front. I'll be looking for advice there later.

What's the best way to clean up the bakelite cases? I've heard soap and water, and brasso/metal polishes?

My 46-131 has a large crack and loose piece. Fortunately I have the piece and it even fits tightly into the crack without anything more than just a few small chips missing. What's the best way to repair/glue the bakelite? I was planning on using some cyanoacrylate "instant" glue. Whenever I have used this in the past I always get a little of 'squeezeout'. Normally this wouldn't be a problem as I would just sand it down to blend it in to the surrounding surface. I hear that bakelite doesn't take to sanding well, what's the best way to handle this as well as removing small scratches/crud from the rest of the cabinet?

My 48-460 is one of the white "hippo" versions. The white/ivory paint is very warn and dirty with many, many chips missing from it along with several areas where it is simply flaking off. My first inclination is to strip off all the white paint and just go with the dark (brown or black, haven't noticed) bakelite underneath. Am I crazy for doing this? What would you use to remove the old paint? The other option is i could 'feather' the old paint and repaint it white/ivory. It is by no means a museum piece as there are a few smallish chips missing from the case around the rear opening but no other major cracks/blemishes.

Thanks for your help,
John

- gary rabbitt - 05-20-2008

Hi John,

I would recommend you don't power up the sets. Perhaps the ones with a transformer can have power applied, but without tubes present, to test the transformer.

While you could add tubes and power them up, you run the risk of burning something up in case one of the caps has shorted. Would be a shame to kill the transformer.
Bakelite cracks can be glued with crazy glue, then hold the pieces tightly together. Use fresh glue. Any squeezeout can be quickly wiped off before it dries.
That way there is very little to polish off. I would avoid sanding any bakelite on the outer surface, because then you will have to use finer and finer grits to make it smooth. BUT if you sand the gloss coat off, you are into the rougher base material, and then never polishes well.
Think of concrete, and the smooth topcoat, Grind that off, and you're into the lower layers of rocks and concrete, no smoothness there.

Sanding can also be dangerous to breathe the dust, as asbestos is said to be used in some of the filler material in bakelite. Use a mask anytime you sand anything.


Personally, I use Brasso on a medium dulled cabinet. It's not just a wipe on, wipe off procedure. YOu have to cut thru the oxidation to that glossy finish. As you keep polishing, you will start to see the gloss appear. One cabinet can take up to 5 hrs to fully polish. Grilles are the hardest. Getting into every tight corner, you meed to make some special tools from wood sticks and dowels to get into every crease.

Once the set is polished, I use a good paste wax like Johnson's. Let it fully dry, then buff off. The wax seems to make the color deeper and adds some protection to the finish. (Don't use a spray wax with silicones. If the cabinet is ever to be repainted the silicones can cause fisheye problems.)


I have not used them, but there are products out there that are not really a polish, but a coating. GlayZit is one. Some folks like it, I have never used it, so to each their own.

OK, for the cracks I mentioned using super glue. That will hold the pieces in place. I always add some epoxy on the backside of a crack, this helps build up an area where the two sections are joined. Maybe 1/4" on each side of a crack. Use the 24 hour type as it seems stronger, and will flow out smoothly on the backside of the set.

For any missing pieces, I use fiberglass resin. A quart can will last a long time. I have made pieces of missing cabinets. Or rather, make a dam out of tape, and fill it with the resin. You can add the fiberglass cloth if desired on larger areas. Then after it cures around a good half hour or less, you can easily shape the resin flush with the rest of the cabinet. Use files, rasps to ge the shape lined up, then use sandpaper and a block to get the contours flush.
If I can find them I'll post a link to a Truetone I started on, finning in a large missing piece.

EDITED>> Here's the link to the thread about the repair.
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=72885&highlight=boomerang
On fillers, some have used Bondo body filler with success. It might hold up fine. But it is still softer than the resin, and might shrink with time and temperature changes. I will stay with the resin.

You asked about scratches on bakelite, well, if they are deep, it it probably best to leave them alone. You could fill with some lacquer wih a fine brush, then as you polish it will level the lacquer making the scratch less visible.

But think, when someone "polishes out" a scratch, they are not removing the scratch, they are removing the surrounding area around the scratch. So, when the surrounding area is level with the depth of the scratch, the scratch appears to have left. BUt in effect, you have removed a lot of material around the scratch. I would rather polish over the smaller ones and not worry about getting a 100% perfect finish.

Hope this helps.
Gary.

- phly guy - 05-20-2008

Gary,

Thanks for taking the time to answer. Yep, that pretty much answers the bakelite repair questions. Good news is I shouldn't need to use much if any bondo.

John

- gary rabbitt - 05-20-2008

Hi John,
Bondo has its uses, but I try to llmit the use to only surface areas where there is something to hold it in place, Using it to make a missing large chip ,might work, but there is no strength in the egde part. It must be backed up on the other side using something like an epoxy for strength

Backing up can be done by simply roughening up along 1/4" of the crack, then flowing the epoxy along it.The roughened up area gives it something to hokd onto. If epoxy is applied to a glossy surface, it might easily peel right off because it's so slick.

I forgot to mention about your hippo set, if there are that many chips, and touch up would not look right, you may need to repaint. That's a whole 'nother thread, but I'd be hapy to help you when the time comes.

Some might remove the paint and leave the bare bakelite as a finish, but care must be used in removing the paint, not to scratch the bakelite. If it's a repaint, then you might not need to remove all the original paint. Paint that is well adhered can be used as a base for your new paint, featheredging the chips or apply a light coat of primer on the bare bakelite spots. The do the repaint. Some of that original paint does hold very well, and I'd leave it there (using as a base) if it's not flaking off all around.

Take care,
Gary.