The PHILCO Phorum

Hi Folks,
Have a problem with the veneer on the front corners on the radius's.
They have a vertical split on both corners that looks like it was caused by the wood underneath the veneer splitting. I think I could inject some glue or epoxy into the crack, and top it off with a colored wood filler, if I could open it up enough to get something in there.
I would then refinish both of those corner panels and leave the rest alone.
I am thinking if they were stained a darker maybe solid color and then sprayed with laquer it would be presentable?
Maybe a dark toner would be better?
Really don't want to try and replace the veneer on those 2 corner panels with that tight of a corner radius.
Maybe Kirk would know a good way to fix this.
It's a nice playing radio so I would like to finish it and find a sturdy shelf to display it on. Weighs a ton.

murf

(09-27-2014, 02:46 PM)murf Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Folks,
Have a problem with the veneer on the front corners on the radius's.
They have a vertical split on both corners that looks like it was caused by the wood underneath the veneer splitting.
It is a large and deep enough split that I think I could inject some glue or epoxy into the crack, and top it off with a colored wood filler.
I would then refinish both of those corner panel and leave the rest alone.
I am thinking if they were stained a darker maybe solid color and then sprayed with laquer it would be presentable?
Maybe a dark toner would be better?
Really don't want to try and replace the veneer on those 2 corner panels with that tight of a corner radius.
Maybe Kirk would know a good way to fix this.
It's a nice playing radio so I would like to finish it and find a sturdy shelf to display it on. Weighs a ton.
murf

murf
pic would be helpful

Cyanoacrylate and baking soda is a great but is more for painted surfaces. It does bond really well though. you could use this for the lower half of the recommendation below.

The best thing is to first use thinned wood glue to fill the crack about 1/2 way. This will prevent further stress cracking of the underwood. Let it dry for 24 hours and then if you can, sand the surface and gather the sawdust. Mix one part glue to one part sawdust and fill the crack. I usually do this and then put more sawdust on top pressing lightly and leave it.
Next day, sand it flat and stain to best match, let dry and tone the way you like.

If you can at all close the gap with clamping that will help too. 

If you are going to top it off with tinted wood putty make sure it is Minwax professional putty. No cracking, no shrinking and no crumbling.

Oh and make sure it is not humid when you do this.

Pictures may change my personal recommendation.

Steve or Russel may have a better idea

Kirk

I got your message Murf. If it is opening and closing with humidity that must be a very wet and then very dry environment? I would wait until it opens and then glue and clamp but with that curve you will not get good clamping.

I get the grinding it out but that will remove the veneer also and then the gap is permanent and no amount of clamping will close it. Are you going to put in a new sliver of veneer?

The curve cracking is a hard fix and very few people can do it successfully.

I would tape the inside cabinet where the crack goes through. Then fill it with wet glue and let it dry. If the veneer is lifted don't glue it down until the wet glue is dry and the crack is now stable.

Then inject undiluted glue under the veneer and preferably use a hand made inside curved piece of pine to the same curve and use strap clamps to hold it down. Use a piece of wood across the back of the cabinet so there is no way for the cabinet to cave in on itself. Then when it is dry you can use color sticks or tinted wood filler to fill any imperfections. Some people even paint the grains in to match it.

Aside from that it is a full veneer strip and replace  

Kirk

Ok, I think I will give that a try.
Thanks much for the advice.
murf

 Short of replacing the cracked veneer I think that any sort of repair you try is going to be temporary, it's too sharp of a bend and there is no enough purchase on the side of each crack towards the rear. This seems to be a common problem with sharp radius bends on Philco cabinets of the 1937-38 period. Since I don't have such a cabinet to examine I can only speculate that the cause may be in that they used some sort of solid structural wood under that veneer that expands enough to snap the veneer right across the grain. That being said it is also a very sharp bend on this cabinet, even sharper then the radius above the control panel of a 37-116.
Regards
Arran

Well fella's, I started to work on the corners today.
Started by sanding down the crack to see what was underneath.
Did not find that the wood under the crack had any signs of cracking.
I will attempt to re-veneer the 2 corner sections.
I have a piece of walnut veneer that should do both corners.
Made a clamping block with the 3/4 inch radius incorpoated into it. Should help keep the new veneer nice and tight while glue sets up.
Wish me luck.
murf

Ok,
Comments?
I know some people that have never attempted this will have something to say?
Only thing I think I am losing here is the small horizontal stripe on the top.
I think once toned and sprayed it will look pretty D**n good.
The average non-critical observer and admirer would never notice the missing faux at the top.
Comments?
Especially from Kirk, as he probably has more experience with this than anyone.
Have a great weekend guy's,,Talking snow flakes here this weekend.
murf

Okay, I'm supposed to be taking some time off but since no one else chimed in, I'll say something...

Great save! I see the new veneer has the grain running vertical rather than horizontal, but in the long run, that might be a good thing due to the curves.

Wow Ron good job.... did not notice that change in the veneer until you pointed it out. Murf it does not matter and I am sure it will look good! Nice find on the radio. i was interested in one to after looking it up in Rons book!

Thanks for the positive response guy's.
I was a little nervous about trying it at first, but it was really pretty easy.
murf

 It looks like the stump walnut strip they used at the bottom on each side did not have the same issue with cracking, which makes sense since the grain was running in the opposite direction. They should have run the rest that way in the first place. I wonder if all of the 38-670B and 38-2670B cabinets had this same veneer treatment or did they differ between production runs?
Regards
Arran

That looks very good Murf, and I think you're right, most people won't even notice the missing stripe unless they're very familiar with this model.  I was so impressed with your veneer replacement I didn't even notice the grain difference until Ron mentioned it.  Be sure to post pics when you get the final finish on it. 

 I thought of one way around this problem which would achieve a similar look to how it was originally. You could use a type of veneer that has rays that run across the grain, usually quarter sawn veneer, that way it will look similar but no longer have the cracking problem. The cabinet maker did this with the cabinet on my Rogers Ten 60 cabinet, the grain is vertical, just like the control panel, but it has rays going across the grain. I'm not sure what species of wood they used for this but it has a similar effect.
Regards
Arran

I think the veneer turned out pretty good, now I just have to fabricate some new trim to replace the old half missing trim pieces.
Think I will use my woodworking skills to saw,sand the 2 front pieces with the 3/4 inch radius versus trying to bend some trim around those corners.
Will post pics before I re-finish.
Out of town for 10 days visiting family in AZ.
Probably keep this one when it's done,so I am not concerned if the finished radio is not an exact clone of the original.
murf