I'm a Newbie that has had the chance to acquire a couple of Philco radios very inexpensively. One is a Philco 40-180, and the other is a Philco Model 71 (Code 221). I need to obtain as much information on these two models as I can get my hands on. I've an electronics background (USMC Radar Tech on RF4B & EA6A, Hardware Support Engineer (Computer) for Honeywell and Burroughs/Unisys). I changed careers and spent the last 20 Years as a Web Master Graphics Design Person and College Level Instructor. I'm getting back into this as a Hobby after Retirement.
I've ordered an Isolation Transformer and a Variac from Radio Daze and will not do anything to these units until I have all documentation and safety systems in place. Slow and steady is the word here. I've also an old Setchell-Carlson Model 416 that I've picked up for $20.00 that I'll practice on before going after either of these guys.
I'd like any and all advise, data, information, resources, and experience that any of you feel like offering. If you've been there or done that, all the better. Remember, I've been out of electronics for over 20 years and away from any hands-on for longer than that. It's coming back, but slowly. Safety warnings, schematic and documentation resources that would be of help, parts resources and anything else that you think would be helpful would be gratefully accepted.
Here is my inspiration for the 40-180:
http://home.flash.net/~lfscott/Restorati...0-180.html.
Once I figure out how to add images here, I'll include shots I've taken of these two units.
My thanks in advance for any help or advise any of you have to offer.
Jim Ryan,
Costa MEsa, CA.
Jim--
First, welcome aboard.
I'm a neophyte myself, and I heartily recommend Chuck Schwark's schematic service. His packet on the 40-180 is excellent; I can vouch as I have a 40-190 which is electronically very similar (the 40-190 has one extra tube and any accompanying fripperies).
Also, pretty much any thread in the Electronics section which relates to the 40-190 also qualifies for your information.
Hi Jim
I would agree with DeckApe. This is a great place to get info. I just completed a 40-190. Before I started I read just about every post and a lot of my questions where answered. Ron and Chuck have done a great job on these sites.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
Bob
You need some European walnut veneer to fix that control panel, don't know about the shoulders. Rubber wiring is the main issue in early 40s Philcos, is the Dial in good shape? If you need a schematic I found my 1940 Philco manual, I could dig it out tomorrow if you still need it. I also have a manual that should have the model 71 (or Canadian equivalent)if you want that scanned as well. How could I get them to you? Email?
Best Regards
Arran
Hi,
(On the 40-180)
The center of the set, where the missing piece is, can and should be repaired. To remove or cover the entire front might open a can of worms if you have never applied new veneer before. Search for veneer repair here or other vintage radio sites. There seems like more than one way to do it.
The dark stains around the escutcheon can be removed with wood bleach. (Lowe's, Home Depot, Ace etc.) Moisture has chemically changed some of the wood fibers, but bleaching them out, you'd be surprised at the results.
The tops of the shoulders is topped with the walnut veneer. Just the flat parts, not the curved edges.
The edges were sprayed with lacquer toner so they would darken the cheaper wood to makch the rest of the set. Simply staining the edges will not work, as the stain does not darken enough into this wood. The layers of toner will build up, until you get the color you want.
The pushbuttons are available from a couple of suppliers. One being Larry Bordonardo at oldtimereplications.com They are $16 a set and look like the originals. Your's are probably already deterioated or missing.
http://www.antiqueradioknobs.com/partlistings.html
On the rubber wiring, there is some in there, but there is also some good cloth covered wire you don't have to worry about.
There are some tight places it's located in so each wire will have to have aplan of action to replace, or slip shrink tubing over.(Need to lift one end.)
As far as experience, sounds like you should have the soldering and diagram reading down pat.
Good luck with the set.
Gary.
Thanks, DeckApe!
Your recommendation of Chuck Schwark's will be followed up. I've downloaded a PDF (schematic & Riders pages) for the 40-180 from NostalgiaAir.com. I'm currently working on a simpler radio, a Setchell Carlson 416 (Frog eyes - All American Five) to get my feet wet. It's also being used to re-initialize this old brain from my days as a radar tech in the Marines (1970-1974), a computer field support engineer for Honeywell (1974-1979) and Burroughs (1979 - 1991)!
I built crystal radios and a one tube radio as a kid, but have not touched tubes or anything outside of ICs in a long time. I've been a Graphic Designer, web master, and college instructor since 1999. Now that I'm retired, I'm going back to tubes! Unreal!
Bob Wrote:Hi Jim
I would agree with DeckApe. This is a great place to get info. I just completed a 40-190. Before I started I read just about every post and a lot of my questions where answered. Ron and Chuck have done a great job on these sites.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
Bob
I appreciate everything anyone can do to help me here (see return post to DeckApe). I'll try to post to you guys when I can, and will always reply to those who seek to help.
Thanks again.
Arran Wrote:You need some European walnut veneer to fix that control panel, don't know about the shoulders. Rubber wiring is the main issue in early 40s Philcos, is the Dial in good shape? If you need a schematic I found my 1940 Philco manual, I could dig it out tomorrow if you still need it. I also have a manual that should have the model 71 (or Canadian equivalent)if you want that scanned as well. How could I get them to you? Email?
Best Regards
Arran
Arran:
You're a life saver! I would very much like a copy of those manuals. I've downloaded what is available from Nostalgiaair.com, but will welcome anything you have that is in addition to that (or from anyone else reading this post).
The Dial is missing, so I've ordered a replacement along with the decals I'm going to need from RadioDaze. What I haven't been able to locate is the dial string and pointer (also missing). Any Ideas anyone?
I've ordered wiring from RadioDaze as well, so that shouldn't be a problem.
I'm building a work stand so that I can mount chassis on a rotatable support (like the old German clock makers). Cheap lumber and clamps from Rockler are being used. But I'm using this project as an opportunity to learn about veneers and stains. I expect it to be a little rough, but see this as a learning experience.
Take a look at the photos of the radios I've acquired on my Flickr page:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimryan62/
You can email me at
easyone@ca.rr.com
Thanks for all your help.
Jim Ryan
gary rabbitt Wrote:Hi,
(On the 40-180)
The center of the set, where the missing piece is, can and should be repaired. To remove or cover the entire front might open a can of worms if you have never applied new veneer before. Search for veneer repair here or other vintage radio sites. There seems like more than one way to do it.
The dark stains around the escutcheon can be removed with wood bleach. (Lowe's, Home Depot, Ace etc.) Moisture has chemically changed some of the wood fibers, but bleaching them out, you'd be surprised at the results.
The tops of the shoulders is topped with the walnut veneer. Just the flat parts, not the curved edges.
The edges were sprayed with lacquer toner so they would darken the cheaper wood to makch the rest of the set. Simply staining the edges will not work, as the stain does not darken enough into this wood. The layers of toner will build up, until you get the color you want.
The pushbuttons are available from a couple of suppliers. One being Larry Bordonardo at oldtimereplications.com They are $16 a set and look like the originals. Your's are probably already deterioated or missing.
http://www.antiqueradioknobs.com/partlistings.html
On the rubber wiring, there is some in there, but there is also some good cloth covered wire you don't have to worry about.
There are some tight places it's located in so each wire will have to have aplan of action to replace, or slip shrink tubing over.(Need to lift one end.)
As far as experience, sounds like you should have the soldering and diagram reading down pat.
Good luck with the set.
Gary.
Thanks for the reply, Gary.
I'm building myself a radio chassis stand right now and am taking the opportunity to experiment with veneers and stains, etc. so that if I need to do so, I can rebuild that center panel. About half of the thickness of plywood back of the panel directly behind the dial holes is completely gone, with just the veneer and a bit of plywood remaining. I have to either build it up from the back or rebuild the panel. See inspiration:
http://home.flash.net/~lfscott/Restorati...0-180.html
I'll try the Toner bit for the areas that need it, though the shoulders at the top are cracked (about the width of a sheet of paper), so I've got some investigating to do before tackling that area.
I've ordered a new dial panel (they are plastic now, and evidently not available in glass any longer. The needle will come from a different source. I just talked to someone who has one to sell me. Luckily, since I haven't found them anywhere else.
I have wire on order, and will probably order some cloth covered wire from RadioDaze when the time comes to do so.
I'm holding off on this guy till I get some experience with simpler radios. (I'm doing an "All American Five" hot chassis radio right now.) I have my variac and Isolation transformer, and once my radio chassis stand is finished, I'll go at it.
I really want to thank you for your input. It's nice to know that guys like you are out there.
Jim
Philco 40-180 Schematic help.
Schematics downloaded for this Philco 40-180 do not agree with what is in my version of this radio.
Downloaded schematics show an 8 tube model with this tube lineup:
1232, 7J7, 7B7, 7A6, 7C6, 41, 41, 84
What I have is:
1232, 6J8G, 7B7, 7C6, 41, 41, 84
Grillcloth.com has a radio finder feature that seems to indicate that the 7J7 and the 6J8G are interchanged on this radio (per Howard Sam's Red Book - 1st edition).
But these tubes have such different pinouts that the schematics have to be radically different.
7J7 pinout:
http://www.nostalgiaair.org/tubes/7j7.htm.
6J8G pinout:
http://www.nostalgiaair.org/tubes/6j8g.htm.
Does anyone know where the proper schematic can be had for a 40-180 that uses a 7 tube line-up with a 6J8G in use?
Philco never published a schematic of the 40-180 showing the 6J8G tube. You have to use the schematic showing the 7J7, and have a layout of the 6J8G connections handy.
The internal elements of the 7J7 and 6J8G are identical, and would appear so on the schematic if two versions existed (one showing a 7J7 and one showing a 6J8G). It is only where the elements connect to the individual pins (and grid cap in the case of the 6J8G) that differ. Both are triode-heptode converters.
I prefer the NJ7P tube database, results are below.
7J7:
http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=7J7
6J8G:
http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6J8G
Notice that they are electrically identical - specifications are the same - and each tube contains a triode and a heptode in the same glass envelope! Again, the difference is in the pin layout.
Ron:
Wow! This is going to be very strange.
The schematic shows 8 tubes, but notes that the 40-180 does not use the 7A6 tube.
They even show dotted lines for the tube and it's connections.
I assume that since the 7J7 and the 6J8G are mirror images of one another, that the factory wired the set
for that tube to be used as the Det.-Osc. rather than a 7J7. Is that correct?
Is this common in older sets, or is this an aberration?
BTW I made the contact you suggested about the Shield, and he has given me a price and is looking to see if
he can locate the specs for it. I'll probably have him create a new one for me, and will work on AA5 radios in
the mean time as I think this one will be quite a challenge.
Thanks for your help.
Hi, checking to see how your project panned out. I have a 40-180 I will begin tackling as well and everyone's comments are extremely helpful to me. I have to do some veneer work on the shoulders and the curved front just below the dial. Otherwise the rest is in fair shape once I remove the old laquer. I am interested in how (or what) the laquer was applied (color, etc) and how that process was finished off. Thanks and hope your project went well.
Gary