After I bought the 37-650XP last year, and got a speaker for it from Ron, I've been sort of keeping an eye out for more 37-650 chassis, so that I'll end up with three very nice examples of the set. Our family radio was a 37-650X that father bought new for Christmas, 1936. It served us well until some time in the fifties, when I replaced it with a Fisher, homebrew amplifier, and E-V Regency III speaker system. I've always been sort of regretful that I left the old Philco get away.
But, now, I'm getting to be sort of glutton. I will end up with the "X", the "XP", and the "B". I imagine that the X version of that set should be a real whizzbanger of performer. Now, just found anoher chassis; a nice clean one, speaker and all.
For the price, those mid-level Philcos are impossible to beat, in any respect.
(03-03-2012, 12:17 AM)Doug Houston Wrote: [ -> ]After I bought the 37-650XP last year, and got a speaker for it from Ron, I've been sort of keeping an eye out for more 37-650 chassis, so that I'll end up with three very nice examples of the set. Our family radio was a 37-650X that father bought new for Christmas, 1936. It served us well until some time in the fifties, when I replaced it with a Fisher, homebrew amplifier, and E-V Regency III speaker system. I've always been sort of regretful that I left the old Philco get away.
But, now, I'm getting to be sort of glutton. I will end up with the "X", the "XP", and the "B". I imagine that the X version of that set should be a real whizzbanger of performer. Now, just found anoher chassis; a nice clean one, speaker and all.
For the price, those mid-level Philcos are impossible to beat, in any respect.
It's nice to find something like that, one thing I've been keeping my eyes open for is a Canadian Philco 340H, a great Aunt of mine bought one new that my Uncle later acquired from her, it was a six legged console version of one of the "Butterfly" sets. My Uncle sold it during a move and has regreted it ever since, it wasn't a high end set but it was a fairly decent performer.
Another I have been looking for is a Canadian G.E E-81, or at least a chassis for one, it shares the same chassis as a RCA 8T, 8K, 7T or 7K and also a Canadain E-86. I have more or less the complete set but the chassis is a total rustbucket.
Regards
Arran
Well, OK, Ron. I finally got the 37-650 chassis yesterday, that I bought off of eBay. Tubes were with it, so that's good. Speaker also with it, with another open output transformer........! Dial scale has a crack in it, probably from shipping damage. I will cement the crack together with speaker cement. It's still usable. Believe it or not, the tuner mounting grommets are still good as new.
This chassis was almost totally unmolested, the only obvious repair having been a filter condenser replacement some time ago. The speaker harness is there. I'll need to replace the little pin plugs on each wire.
This chassis will replace the chassis in the phono combination. It'll be a matter of re-capping the chassis, re-aligning it, and into the phono cabinet it'll go. The chassis in the phono set has had all sorts of stuff scrawled all over it, and the speaker harness missing. If at all, that will become the "parts chassis".
NOW, RON: I gots a question. On the 37-650 chassis, the 5Y4 tube sits atop the power transformer, as on many Philco sets of that vintage. I've never tried it, but if I pinch the little protrusions on the rectifier socket, will that cap on top there come loose, and let the socket in the open? If so, I can install the jumper links on the socket, and make it work with a 5Y3 OR a 5Y4. I have lots of 5Y3's, so it could be handy.
What do you know about the accessability of that socket?
(03-07-2012, 06:42 PM)Ron Ramirez Wrote: [ -> ]That's great news, Doug!
(03-25-2012, 08:17 PM)Doug Houston Wrote: [ -> ]Well, OK, Ron. I finally got the 37-650 chassis yesterday, that I bought off of eBay. Tubes were with it, so that's good. Speaker also with it, with another open output transformer........! Dial scale has a crack in it, probably from shipping damage. I will cement the crack together with speaker cement. It's still usable. Believe it or not, the tuner mounting grommets are still good as new.
This chassis was almost totally unmolested, the only obvious repair having been a filter condenser replacement some time ago. The speaker harness is there. I'll need to replace the little pin plugs on each wire.
This chassis will replace the chassis in the phono combination. It'll be a matter of re-capping the chassis, re-aligning it, and into the phono cabinet it'll go. The chassis in the phono set has had all sorts of stuff scrawled all over it, and the speaker harness missing. If at all, that will become the "parts chassis".
NOW, RON: I gots a question. On the 37-650 chassis, the 5Y4 tube sits atop the power transformer, as on many Philco sets of that vintage. I've never tried it, but if I pinch the little protrusions on the rectifier socket, will that cap on top there come loose, and let the socket in the open? If so, I can install the jumper links on the socket, and make it work with a 5Y3 OR a 5Y4. I have lots of 5Y3's, so it could be handy.
What do you know about the accessability of that socket?
(03-07-2012, 06:42 PM)Ron Ramirez Wrote: [ -> ]That's great news, Doug!
Good thing you mentioned the 5Y4/5Y3 jumper trick on the Philco Phorum and not the other forum. The last time I mentioned that the peanut gallery got onto the idea that the ajacent pins would arc over onto each other, how exactly that would happen with only 350 volts on each plate wasn't explained. But then again this is the same gallery that thinks every device with a 6X5 is a ticking timebomb, that simply adding a polarized plug to a hot chassis AC/DC set makes it safe, and applaud medeocre cabinet repair work.
I have a Canadian Westinghouse set where I did that, it originally had a 5Z4 but I didn't have a spaer 5Z4 so I added the jumpers so I could use a 5Y3. The stupid part was it was an old TV serviceman, and former RCAF electronics instructor, that told me about it.
Regards
Arran
P.S I think that the rectifier socket has a ring that pops off in some way, I don't know how easy it is to remove the socket and access the bottom side, I've heard it's a bit of a boar's nest under there.
Hello, Doug: I have a 38-5 that will only work with a 5Y3. It had a 5U4 installed when I got it. I have no Idea how it was modified.....
Thanx, Arran. (and I think Ron, too).
The 6X5 issue is an interesting one. Zenith was the big offender (player), in the use of 6X5's in the rectifier duty. Our friends in Chicago had a nasty habit of bloating their tube counts, even a little. I'm sure that they considered it innocent enough to put two 6X5's in place of one 5Y3 (or 5Y4) in the rectifier sockets. I've never had a problem with having a 6X5 in an auto set. Zenith owners have had lots of trouble, though. I attribute that to the fact that the "Z" boys ran the 6X5's at higher plate voltages, and caused flashovers that happened lots less in automotive sets.
Go figure: There were loads of automotive sets that used 84 rectifiers. I never heard of ONE of them flashing over in a car set. And, quite a few of those auto sets were PHILCO!! And also remember that the 6X5 is simply an octal based 84! A 6X5 flashing over in a household set, meant curtains for the power transformer, and Zenith had no reputation for over specced power transformers
Back to the 37-650, I'm going to look into the accessibility of the rectifier socket.
(03-25-2012, 11:04 PM)Doug Houston Wrote: [ -> ]Thanx, Arran. (and I think Ron, too).
The 6X5 issue is an interesting one. Zenith was the big offender (player), in the use of 6X5's in the rectifier duty. Our friends in Chicago had a nasty habit of bloating their tube counts, even a little. I'm sure that they considered it innocent enough to put two 6X5's in place of one 5Y3 (or 5Y4) in the rectifier sockets. I've never had a problem with having a 6X5 in an auto set. Zenith owners have had lots of trouble, though. I attribute that to the fact that the "Z" boys ran the 6X5's at higher plate voltages, and caused flashovers that happened lots less in automotive sets.
Go figure: There were loads of automotive sets that used 84 rectifiers. I never heard of ONE of them flashing over in a car set. And, quite a few of those auto sets were PHILCO!! And also remember that the 6X5 is simply an octal based 84! A 6X5 flashing over in a household set, meant curtains for the power transformer, and Zenith had no reputation for over specced power transformers
Back to the 37-650, I'm going to look into the accessibility of the rectifier socket.
I've tried explaining that to people but they just won't believe me, that a 6X5 is an octal based 84 tube, and a 6X4 is a nine pin miniature 6X5. I have also explained that I have owned at least a half dozen small AC sets that used 6X5s and not one had a barbecued power transformer, some even still had the original 6X5 in it as the day it left the factory. If they were such a ticking time bomb I had better buy a lottery ticket because I must have a big prize coming. The reason is that Stewart Warner, Packard Bell, Dominion Electrohome, and presumably Philco and most car radios used them in their proper application, a five or six tube set with a 6K6 audio output. In radios where the maximum current draw was bellow 70 ma and the input voltage was bellow 325 volts AC per plate they would be fine as far as I can tell, most of these were well below both figures.
From what I read the brand Z boys thought it would be a cute idea to power a ten tube set with a pair of them, probably with a pair of 6F6s in the power output stage, but that's what you get with a used car salesman running a radio company.
Regards
Arran
P.S Maybe you could make an adapter if it proves difficult to access the bottom side of that 37-650 rectifier socket? If there is enough room inside the cabinet.
Hi Doug
Sorry, by the time you posted last night I had already hit the hay.
Yes, if you pinch those protrusions as you described, the cap will come off. Mind you, there is precious little extra wire under that socket, and just moving the socket may cause one or more of the wires' insulation to crack and possibly fall off. You may have to remove the bell of the transformer and resleeve those wires with heat shrink tubing.
But to answer your question, yes, that is how the cap comes off; by pinching the protrusions with pliers. They can be tapped back into place once finished with a flat blade screwdriver and a small hammer.
Very well, Ron. I sort of expected to see little space under the rectifier socket, as you've said. As soon as I can, I'll get the cap off of the socket. I have enough sense to LEAVE THE WIRING ALONE. I have an idea that there might be enough clearance under the socket to add the three jumper wires that will be necessary to have a "combination" socket for a 5Y3.
It won't be easy, because the tube socket terminals (per Murphy's laws), will be as unaccessible as possible. But, pighead that I am, it'll get done.
Oh, back to
Arran. I once re-capped a cute Zenith table set, that had a 6X5 rectifier. Wouldn't ya know it: the power transformer was ashes. I have a habit of not checking that BEFORE I re-cap the set. Sooooo, I poked around my transformer stash, and found one that would fit. The spacing was tight, and the trans that I found just barely fit the opening, and the chassis. That set now has a 5Y3 rectifier, and is probably one of the better Zeniths in captivity, simply because of the 5Y3.
(03-26-2012, 04:51 AM)Ron Ramirez Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Doug
Sorry, by the time you posted last night I had already hit the hay.
Yes, if you pinch those protrusions as you described, the cap will come off. Mind you, there is precious little extra wire under that socket, and just moving the socket may cause one or more of the wires' insulation to crack and possibly fall off. You may have to remove the bell of the transformer and resleeve those wires with heat shrink tubing.
But to answer your question, yes, that is how the cap comes off; by pinching the protrusions with pliers. They can be tapped back into place once finished with a flat blade screwdriver and a small hammer.
Oh, I know you'll be careful, Doug. But, believe me, the wiring insulation inside some of those transformers is so brittle, it seems that all you need do is breathe on them and the insulation falls off. But if anyone can do the job, you can! Good luck!
I have had similar experiences with the Zeta brand, an 8S356 and an 8S463, both with bad 6X5Gs and both with fried power transformers.