The PHILCO Phorum

I need to find info on the needle cartridge that's in this Philco 46-1209. Is there a way to check the cartridge to see if it's bad? It's some type of magnetic pickup and if I put my meter across the two inputs at the cartridge i see 120 ohms. The amp needs to be repaired before I can test this one. Are there replacements etc.? I also need an idler for it. Just has a part number on it of 56-2882 and it's 1-5/8" in diameter depending on where you measure. It's badly worn. Here's a picture of the cartridge.


Thanks,
Pepper

As far as I know, the whole line of those radios had pretty much the same phono, we're talking about the Philcos 46-1209, 46-1226, 47-1227 & 47-1230. I have the latter.
They are equipped with either Philco D-10 or Philco D-10A record changers. Model D-10 employs a crystal pickup, whereas model D-10A employs a dynamic pickup. From pictures comparison, I think you have a D-10; might this be a crystal pickup?

I ended up shipping my changer to another member here with the same model as my radio, so I never got it to work, but I have been told those pickups are very hard to come by. When I first came to this site, Ron suggested

Quote:The original changer may very well be repairable. As for the cartridge, a magnetic cartridge with a 78 rpm stylus could be used in place of the original "Dynamic" cartridge. The 47-1230 has a phono preamp built into the chassis, so this is an ideal setup for a magnetic cartridge.

I assume the same would be true with the 1209.

I failed to take into account the odd mounting of the original cartridge, which I was not thinking of at the time - the two screw holes are too far back. Johnny's photo clearly shows this.

Johnny, it looks like yours has an original stylus in there? The bad thing about those cartridges is that the vast majority of them were ruined by people removing the original stylus and forcing a steel needle into the cone, ruining the cartridge. The stylus just pushes into the hole in the cone. The hole is made just for the special Philco stylus; a steel needle has a larger diameter.

Once the cone is ruined in this fashion, the cartridge itself still has good continuity but it will no longer hold the proper stylus once the hole gets enlarged by a steel needle.

And Gib at West-Tech is not equipped to fix this issue. I asked him once when I had one that was ruined by a steel needle - no way to fix the damage.

Okay, this is all good info. My cartridge doesn't appear to have been tampered with. Larger needle installed etc. The existing one still slides in and out very nicely with just a little pressure on it. Enough to hold it in. It's just worn out.

So I'm going to try some testing with another amp just to see if this cartridge is good. But this brings up the question of... Where do I get these original Philco needles? Are they even out there?

And thanks for noticing that distance from the mount holes Ron. It's actually 1-3/8" from hole to tip of needle. My arm would drag on the record. And the mount pattern measures 19/32". Everything's 1/2" normally.

And I do prefer to be called Johnny. Pepperoni was the only name I could find when registering.

EDIT: I hooked up an old RCA jack to this cartridge via some phono wire. Plugged it into one of my good amps and ran my finger across the needle. I get noise from the amp. Question is back to where do I get needles for this cartridge?

So Thanks,
Johnny

Johnny, I would start with Gib at West-Tech for a replacement needle. Hopefully he has one for you.

If you can get a replacement...you are very lucky in that you have one of possibly a very few of those early Philco magnetic cartridges that was not destroyed by someone forcing a steel needle into the cone.

From what it sounds like I am very lucky Ron. I'm still waiting to hear from Gib. I'll call him again on Monday. But if there's nothing available then I'm still kind of in a pickle. I'll have to try to adapt another cartridge in there. I believe it can be done but who wants to go through all that.

"ME" because I want it to work again.

Johnny

I guess I can consider myself very lucky then, because my 47-1230 is still operating with the original dynamic reproducer cartridge. I posted a couple of videos on YouTube demonstrating it playing Bing Crosby records that date to 1947 to give the proper period "feel":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjdl-ZimY6o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1-Aq4ES9Gw

Well Ron Gib says that the cartridge is not rebuildable and the needles are no longer available. I'm doing some checking around now that I know my cartridge is good and I'm finding some needles but this original needle is .040" in diameter at the cartridge end. Maybe you'll agree but I believe I need to stay within .001" of that on the diameter.

Johnny

Oh, yes, I agree completely on the needle diameter. Any larger and you will damage the cartridge - and we know that Gib cannot fix these.

I'm sure beatin' my head against the wall. Asked a question of the seller of this stylus/needle on Ebay what the diameter of the cartridge end of the shaft was. Haven't heard back yet but I just asked this morning.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JUKEBOX-NEEDLE-W...1e7197d910

I'm hoping it's close to .040". It's 3mil which would be great for the 78's and synthetic saphire tipped and I could keep the original cartridge. No amp changes.

But if this doesn't work out is there a complete aftermarket cartridge that could be recommended for this tone arm? I can machine or make a holder for it to fit this arm. Deal with weight and any amp mods later. But if someone knows of a link to one I'd really appreciate it. Something for 78 only. Didn't really want something with a flip lever on it for different speeds. Might just get in my way trying to mount it and I'll end up cutting it off anyway.

Thanks,
Johnny

I bought a D10 parts phonograph for the Philco 46-1209 I'm working on. This D10 tone arm uses an Astatic L-71-A cartridge. I have an L-40-A and Gib at West-Tech said to send it in and it'll work in my player.

But changing from that magnetic cartridge to this Astatic crystal cartridge is going to possibly mean some changes to my 46-1209 amp. The old D10 hooked up to an audio transformer external of the main chassis. Just mounted in the cabinet.

Is there a schematic for a different model Philco that I can reference to see if changes are necessary? 46-1226, 47-1227, 47-1230 etc. have been mentioned.

I'm not positive but I believe my external audio transformer may just go away and this new D10 will plug directly into the RCA jack on my 46-1209. But that may not be completely accurate.

Thanks,
Johnny

All the phono problems are figured out.

Now does anyone know what plugs into this 5 pin socket on the RF section of this 46-1209 right behind the can? I don't believe I see it on the schematic but it's there and wires are attached to it. Nothing was in the cabinet that plugged into it.



Johnny

Your FM antenna wires go there. Look for a white and a black wire going around the back of the cabinet. There should be a plug on the end of the two wires. They used a separate antenna for FM.

I take that back... looking at the gallery pics, I don't believe the 46-1209 had FM. Just AM & short wave. My 47-1230 has the same socket and the FM antenna wires plug into it. Sorry!

You're absolutely correct. Philco got me. I thought this set had FM and I just looked at the dial glass and it's only AM & SW.

Thanks for waking me up.

Johnny