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Wood grain on model 70 - Printable Version

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Wood grain on model 70 - Music in a bottle - 04-26-2009

Why is it that some of the Philco 70s and 90s, have the wood grain running with the arch of the cathedral form, and the rest of them have the grain running front to back of the unit on the cathedral arch form? Seems screwy. Could it be just an attempt to utilize all the scrap from the sheets of veneer?

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - Texasrocker - 04-27-2009

My best guess would be "a loose nut behind the steering wheel", that day ,back in the early 30s at the Philco factory applying veneers on that particular "day"?.. except the cabinets were similar, but different sizes. If your orig veneer is in good shape, your lucky already!! Ive fully restored a few previous serious "basket cases" in my days of the Philco mod 70 & 90 barn finds cathedrals with nothing left but a good orig front panel & floor, and rusty chassis to rebuild electronically from scratch! Since my customer(s) didnt want to pay Dick Olivers price for a new cabinet after full electronics restorations, I also (helped save orig cabs) to be useable again.I built new rear-arch supports from home-drawn templates, to match the front-panel arch cutout, measured, & used formica to bend for the 1st "ply" to make the cabinet complete again "very sturdy" with original floor. Then, I purchased and applied thin sheets of walnut-veneer, and glued them to the formica & stained the veneer with dark-walnut stain & top coated with clear lacquer. On the mod 90s I restored, I did apply the grain "across",as orig as I determined by the few remaining rotted pces, as opposed to fnt & back wood-grains which would have been easier. I figure Dick Oliver may be able to splain better than I,differences between orig positioning of veneers, as he builds fine new handcrafted Philco cabs from scratch! There is a link here on the Philco "resources" pages to contact Dick Oliver. And MAN!!.. he builds some FINE replica Philco cabs indeed!! My electronics restorations are whats really important here, & I figure my customers can at least use my restored cabs (best as I can do) with no woodshop, until they either find a orig ( natta), or buy one of Dicks fine replicas. At least all my customers are still listening to their vintage Philcos 1st & foremost, without probs, and were also happy with my cabinet-repairs. It really depends on just how anal -retentive some customers can be, on such simple issues of cabinet grain selections. Ive never had a prob with that yet! Once my customers hear their vintage Philco mod 70s & 90s ( rotted to nothing barn-find radios)playing again, they usually dont-worry about the small-stuff. Best of luck in your query for info!! Good Question!! Ive never really wondered about that issue before! Your in the right forum to get your answer indeed! Icon_wink

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - Ron Ramirez - 04-27-2009

If you've ever noticed a Model 20 Baby Grand, you will see that the veneer on the top/sides runs vertically, with the arch.

The early 70 and 90 cathedral cabinets also have the top/side veneer applied in the same direction. During production of the 70 and 90, Philco switched to applying the veneer so the grain runs horizontally (front to back) instead.

When did the switch occur? Why did they switch the pattern? How should I know? As far as I know, there are no records of this issue.

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - Music in a bottle - 04-28-2009

Texasrocker Wrote:My best guess would be "a loose nut behind the steering wheel", that day ,back in the early 30s at the Philco factory applying veneers on that particular "day"?.. except the cabinets were similar, but different sizes. If your orig veneer is in good shape, your lucky already!! Ive fully restored a few previous serious "basket cases" in my days of the Philco mod 70 & 90 barn finds cathedrals with nothing left but a good orig front panel & floor, and rusty chassis to rebuild electronically from scratch! Since my customer(s) didnt want to pay Dick Olivers price for a new cabinet after full electronics restorations, I also (helped save orig cabs) to be useable again.I built new rear-arch supports from home-drawn templates, to match the front-panel arch cutout, measured, & used formica to bend for the 1st "ply" to make the cabinet complete again "very sturdy" with original floor. Then, I purchased and applied thin sheets of walnut-veneer, and glued them to the formica & stained the veneer with dark-walnut stain & top coated with clear lacquer. On the mod 90s I restored, I did apply the grain "across",as orig as I determined by the few remaining rotted pces, as opposed to fnt & back wood-grains which would have been easier. I figure Dick Oliver may be able to splain better than I,differences between orig positioning of veneers, as he builds fine new handcrafted Philco cabs from scratch! There is a link here on the Philco "resources" pages to contact Dick Oliver. And MAN!!.. he builds some FINE replica Philco cabs indeed!! My electronics restorations are whats really important here, & I figure my customers can at least use my restored cabs (best as I can do) with no woodshop, until they either find a orig ( natta), or buy one of Dicks fine replicas. At least all my customers are still listening to their vintage Philcos 1st & foremost, without probs, and were also happy with my cabinet-repairs. It really depends on just how anal -retentive some customers can be, on such simple issues of cabinet grain selections. Ive never had a prob with that yet! Once my customers hear their vintage Philco mod 70s & 90s ( rotted to nothing barn-find radios)playing again, they usually dont-worry about the small-stuff. Best of luck in your query for info!! Good Question!! Ive never really wondered about that issue before! Your in the right forum to get your answer indeed! Icon_wink
The veneer is excellent on mine except for millions of tiny cracks in the clear coat. Otherwise, one very small and faint scratch and everything else is primo! The tuning cap like I said earlier, is flopping loose. I'm getting to it though!

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - exray - 04-29-2009

You can do a very acceptable job of mitigating those millions of tiny cracks with a number of off the shelf products. I'm a fan of Briwax with 0000 steel wool or a green Scotchbrite pad. Gotta use the old style Briwax with toluene, not the new stuff. It tends to soften the sharp edges of the tiny cracks to where they smooth right out.

I redid a RCA 140 that was on the borderline of wanting a complete re-finish job. Lots of scratches and the alligatoring to boot. The Briwax did a wonderful job and the finish now is as silky smooth as if I had totally redone it.

I hear that some other products do just as well but I haven't tried many of them.

FWIW.

-Bill

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - Music in a bottle - 04-29-2009

The cracks are so fine, you cannot even see them unless you are up on the cabinet real close. I think it's mostly caused by the way they ran the grain with the curve of the cathedral, front to back. As a carpenter of a couple decades plus, I can only shudder at the thought that anyone would run the grain that way, but it is easier to bend! Just flies in the face of logic from a structural standpoint. Of course, I understand full well, that the Philco model 70 was an entry level radio, perhaps akin to the Chinese crap of today, only in a 1930s sort of classy way! So, Exray. Where would you get that solution of the vintage whereof you speak? I just thought I'd give that a try, and report my findings. Our other Philco console, the model of which I have no idea, actually has the veneer peeling on two portions, slightly, which are rounded at the corners. Much to my surprise, undernieth the peeling veneer is solid wood that has a real nice appearance. I'm tempted to gently remove the peeling veneer, to refinish the wood below. Good idea or no?

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - Ron Ramirez - 04-29-2009

Music in a bottle Wrote:I'm tempted to gently remove the peeling veneer, to refinish the wood below. Good idea or no?

Or no.

The wood underneath the (usually walnut) veneer is a cheap white wood that, in general, has little beauty and is only good for structure, not for appearance.

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - exray - 04-30-2009

Music, I bought my Briwax most recently from this ebay seller. Bought clear and a couple of colors to save on the shipping Icon_sad This fellow knows the difference between the Original and the new stuff. Many sellers use old stock photos of Original cans and/or describe it as "original" in the sense that its not fake. "ORIGINAL" on the can is what you want.

http://cgi.ebay.com/120325084709

Or just search Briwax on ebay.

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - Jim Berg - 04-30-2009

I looked at my two 90's and my 70. The grain on the early 90's run with the arch, serial # 68898 May 9th 31, serial #83256 May 22nd 31. The grain on the 70 runs front to back. It has serial #640245 Sept 11th 31.

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - Music in a bottle - 04-30-2009

Ron Ramirez Wrote:
Music in a bottle Wrote:I'm tempted to gently remove the peeling veneer, to refinish the wood below. Good idea or no?

Or no.

The wood underneath the (usually walnut) veneer is a cheap white wood that, in general, has little beauty and is only good for structure, not for appearance.
So, What would you recommend as a treatment for that area? I can attempt to put up some pictures of the affected area. Doing a single curved radius would be easily doable, but a dual curved type radius, well, I sense this will require more than some scissors and paste! I'm already looking for the wife's bottle of Jim Beam! We happen to really like this particular radio console.

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - Music in a bottle - 04-30-2009

Jim Berg Wrote:I looked at my two 90's and my 70. The grain on the early 90's run with the arch, serial # 68898 May 9th 31, serial #83256 May 22nd 31. The grain on the 70 runs front to back. It has serial #640245 Sept 11th 31.
Woah! Now where do you locate the manufacture dates on the model 70?

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - Music in a bottle - 04-30-2009

exray Wrote:Music, I bought my Briwax most recently from this ebay seller. Bought clear and a couple of colors to save on the shipping Icon_sad This fellow knows the difference between the Original and the new stuff. Many sellers use old stock photos of Original cans and/or describe it as "original" in the sense that its not fake. "ORIGINAL" on the can is what you want.

http://cgi.ebay.com/120325084709

Or just search Briwax on ebay.
Thanks Exray. I'm going to get.

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - Jim Berg - 05-10-2009

I found the cabinet dates on the bottom of the cabinet. About 1/4 inch numbers.

Re: Wood grain on model 70 - Music in a bottle - 05-10-2009

Jim Berg Wrote:I found the cabinet dates on the bottom of the cabinet. About 1/4 inch numbers.
Nothing on mine. I am getting older though, and should look a bit closer with some glasses maybe!

RE: Wood grain on model 70 - Music in a bottle - 06-08-2012

Okay Bill or anybody for that matter..... Which of these http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_nkw=briwax&_sacat=0 in the Briwax lineup is going to be the best?