The PHILCO Phorum
What did I get myself into? - Printable Version

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What did I get myself into? - brianbbs67 - 06-17-2018

Always wanted one of the cathedral radios.  Came across one at a yard sale that actually powered up.  After searching the net last night, i can not determine the model or the electronics.  Any one here know what i have and what, if anything I could receive on this??

[Image: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1804/28994900718_3dce243984_c.jpg]IMG_0929 by brianbbs67, on Flickr

[Image: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1722/28994908008_bc73430408_c.jpg]IMG_0930 by brianbbs67, on Flickr

[Image: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/880/41966865925_b820d294df_c.jpg]IMG_0931 by brianbbs67, on Flickr

RE: What did I get myself into? - Nathan Slingerland - 06-17-2018

Welcome to an awesome hobby!

I'm going to say that's a Philco 43B from 1932.

I haven't worked on one of those personally but it looks right based on the cabinet, knob pattern and escutcheon shown in the Gallery - as well as the socket layout.

If it is a 43B it receives broadcast (AM) as well as shortwave up to 20MHz. There's not a heck of a lot on shortwave but depending on where you live you may have decent AM reception (all radios of this era require a wire antenna - at least 6ft of wire). Some folks add audio input jacks (you can play music over it via bluetooth) - or you can leave it unmodified and set up an in-house AM transmitter to re-broadcast FM or anything at all that you like to listen to.

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P.S. You should avoid powering it up until again until it has been minimally serviced (filter capacitors replaced) and checked for anything obviously wrong under the chassis. Even 'working' antique radios have parts that are leaking and inefficient - they are of course *many many decades* past their expected lifetimes. It's easy for one of those to short out and take some difficult to replace part with it.

RE: What did I get myself into? - brianbbs67 - 06-17-2018

Thanks for the reply. As you said, top scale goes to 20.

[Image: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1785/42867585851_cb6970c6de_c.jpg]IMG_0935 by brianbbs67, on Flickr

These are the others top end. I wonder if the last is am, but hooked up ground and antenna wire(25Ft) and got nothing but noise.

[Image: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1807/28995371908_9716f1d465_c.jpg]IMG_0936 by brianbbs67, on Flickr

[Image: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1739/41057343330_eb8c59dc45_c.jpg]IMG_0937 by brianbbs67, on Flickr

[Image: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1739/28995380098_e36c821e32_c.jpg]IMG_0938 by brianbbs67, on Flickr

RE: What did I get myself into? - Nathan Slingerland - 06-17-2018

The last one you show is the broadcast band (AM).

The shortwave reception is split across the first three bands you show.
The low end of the first shortwave band likely also receives some modern AM channels.

If you're getting static things are basically working (the speaker, power transformer is intact). But like I said you're asking for trouble to leave it powered on at this point. Even though it appears to (sort of) work now it could easily stop working in its current condition.

RE: What did I get myself into? - brianbbs67 - 06-17-2018

After looking at it, I think your right. When the mods let me post pics again I will

RE: What did I get myself into? - brianbbs67 - 06-17-2018

Thanks for the reply.  What should I do to verify everything?  I know all the dust and debris must go.

RE: What did I get myself into? - Nathan Slingerland - 06-17-2018

You'll find plenty of help here!

Your first two posts need to be approved by a moderator (I'm one). You should be able to post without posts needing manual approval now (we do this to limit spam).

The first step is to find the schematic and familiarize yourself with it - see here: http://philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=16721
Ideally you'd want the parts list too. You can find that in the 'Wiring Diagrams and Parts Lists' booklet that covers some of the earlier Philco radios.

Since you're new to the hobby I'd suggest the main thing is to spend some time reading through previous threads from in the 'Philco Electronic Restoration' board:
http://philcoradio.com/phorum/forumdisplay.php?fid=8

Ron's restoration notebooks are also an excellent place to start:
http://philcoradio.com/phorum/forumdisplay.php?fid=45

Finally, here's a previous thread on the model 43:
http://philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=8208&highlight=%22model+43%22

The best thing is that it includes an under-chassis picture - very useful for figuring out if anything is out of place and what you need to investigate further from a first look.

RE: What did I get myself into? - brianbbs67 - 06-18-2018

Thanks for all the info. I am hoping to get mine able to receive AM and liquid gold it. I won't change a thing if I can get it receiving.

RE: What did I get myself into? - mikethedruid - 06-18-2018

Welcome Brian ! Actually, if you want the radio to not self destruct, you are going to have to change a number of things. You will need to replace all the paper condensers (capacitors to use the modern term). Some people go to the length of actually heating the old condensers, pulling out the old guts, and replacing the guts with a new poly cap of the same capacitance and equal or higher voltage rating. Modern 630 volt condensers will easily fit in the old tubes and are higher voltage rated. Some of us, myself included, do not bother with this and just replace the paper condensers with the new ones, and leave them looking new. It makes little difference in the long run since they are hidden under the chassis. You will also have to rebuild the filter condensers. For this you can use modern electrolytic condensers of equal or somewhat higher capacity and equal or higher voltage rating. Folks here will explain how to rebuild the old electrolytic condensers so they will look the same, but have the new condensers hidden inside. I DO rebuild the electrolytics. Why do all this ? Because if one of the old condensers fails in a shorted way, it can cause damage to the power transformer. Also, you will want to check all the resistors to make sure they are still within specification. If they are you can leave them, if not they too will have to be replaced for the radio to function properly. I usually just go ahead and replace them with modern resistors of a higher power rating and the same resistance. Again, the modern resistors are smaller for the same rating as the old ones, so a 1 watt is about the same size as an old 1/2 watt, and so on. After all this, you will need to have the radio aligned, the circuits re-tuned, for it to work at its best. If you do not have the equipment to do this you will need to have it done by a repair shop that does have the equipment, or buy the equipment and learn to do it yourself. I know this seems a lot to go through, but it is fun, it is what this hobby is all about. When you are finished you will have a radio that functions like new, and will be reliable, something you can be proud of. If you are not experienced at soldering, I suggest you practice using some spare pieces of wire until you get the hang of it. For work on these old radios, I find a Weller gun type iron works much better than the small pencil types one uses for printed circuit board work.

RE: What did I get myself into? - OldRestorer - 06-18-2018

NO liquid gold!
It has silicone in it....
Bad Bad Bad for your radio...

Clean with GoJo original formula and #0000 steel wool. The crud will melt away. Then Hoards Restor-a-finish to make it all pretty. Last a coat or so of Howards feed-n-wax.

Welcome
Icon_smile

RE: What did I get myself into? - mikethedruid - 06-18-2018

Hi Brian,
If you are not experienced in working on older electronic equipment, i.e. pre PC board stuff and tube equipment, here are a couple of books in PDF form you might find useful to read.
https://archive.org/details/RadioForTheMillions
https://archive.org/details/Audels_Radiomans_Guide_Edwin_P._Anderson_1945 
They are free downloads. I hope they will be of help to you. If you like them, they can be found on Amazon or even eBay sometimes, if you want a hard copy. I have owned both for many years and found them very useful.
Best of luck with your project. Keep us informed of your progress.
Mike

RE: What did I get myself into? - Radioroslyn - 06-18-2018

Hi Brian and welcome,
>What did I get myself into?

Well it depends. If you mean expense wise would think abt $50 in parts barring anything major.
If you mean technically yes there is a bit of a learning curve but if you have the motivation and some skills like soldering wiring and such that's a big +. Don't really have broach the deep technical stuff unless you'd like to.
Things like small hand tools, wire cutters, small drill, dremel tool, nn pliers, nut drivers, volt ohm meter. Signal generator is nice to have too.
As mentioned before a lot help here self include so if you have any question we're happy to entertain them.

GL

RE: What did I get myself into? - brianbbs67 - 06-18-2018

Thanks for all the advice. I will not plug it in again until I pull the chassis and address the condensers. I can solder and have a weller or two because they work well. I would like to keep it as original as possible just because I prefer it. But, certain modern upgrades seem near necessary for a radio I wish to use from time to time.

Oldrestorer Does lemon pledge contain silicone also? And what is bad about silicon on the wood? Does it delaminated the veneer ?

RE: What did I get myself into? - Ron Ramirez - 06-18-2018

I'm not OldRestorer, but I can tell you that Lemon Pledge (as well as most spray can furniture polishes) contain silicone.

What is bad about silicone? It contaminates the wood. It gets absorbed into the wood and once it does, it is nearly impossible to get off. Try refinishing a cabinet that has been contaminated with silicone and you will soon discover why we tell you not to use it. The new lacquer will "fisheye" and not adhere properly.

RE: What did I get myself into? - brianbbs67 - 06-18-2018

Ok, that makes sense.  The reason I asked is I have used liquid gold to restore the original finish on my 1862 pump organ.  I had no plans to refinish it, just make it look better.  Same goes for this radio.  The finish is good enough original to leave it that way.  Its only original once, as we say in the antique bike world.  My friend who restores and fixes old grandfather clocks for a living suggested I use Old English but I am guessing that probably has silicon too?