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Barn find Philco 116x - Printable Version

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Barn find Philco 116x - Bob White12 - 01-15-2020

well im finally getting to posting this but first a little back story. we bought this property awhile back ago and I have always known that these radios were there. but recently I read a book about early computing and I wanted to see how a vacuum tube worked. so I took one from the radio to study and after I started researching the radio and finding out what kind it is and how it works. So anyway I think Ill start to try and get it out from where it is and inspect it this weekend but right now the radio is a giant spider nest! so what is my first step? I need a new rectifier tube and one of the 6A3 tubes has a rattle so id think ill need to replace that one too.
   
   
   
just ask if you need more pics

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - Radioroslyn - 01-15-2020

GGGGRRRRRRR It's missing the 6A3's $$
Here's one I serviced a yr or so ago.

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - Bob White12 - 01-15-2020

No don't worry I have all the tubes I just took them out for inspection. but one of the 6a3 has a rattle so I think its bad but the rectifier tube was broken when I found it. any way to test the tubes with out a tester?
ps:it has tongsol 6a3 tubes in it are those replacements
?

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - morzh - 01-15-2020

Bob

If you are planning to continue with this hibby, you will need equipment. Amongst others, a tube tester.
Get the 6A3 tested before you chuck it. No rattle is better than some rattle but it does not necessarily means a bad tube.

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - mikethedruid - 01-15-2020

If you want to repair or restore these radios you will need quite a few things.

1. Basic hand tools, needle nose pliers, regular pliers, a set of screwdrivers, a set of small (jewelers) screwdrivers, small and medium sized diagonal cutters.

2. A good soldering gun. A Weller 140 - 150 watt type. Get an older one with the nuts to hold in the tips. The new ones with set screws suck. You can find them inexpensively on eBay.

3. A multi-meter which measures volts, ohms, and current. Some will also measure capacitance, which is nice to have. These can be bought from eBay, or Harbor Freight. Don't get the cheapest one. Spend a little more and get a good one.

4. A tube tester which has sockets for the older types of tubes, 4, 5, 6, and 7 pin large base tubes, and 8 pin octal and 8 pin loctal tubes. These too can be found on eBay for reasonable prices. I suggest replacing any electrolytic capacitors in it before you begin to use it.

5. To align the radio after you finish with the parts replacement you will need a signal generator. You will find discussions on this board about such things. There are some new ones being sold on eBay. Personally, I prefer to use one of the old tube type sig gens. Again, if you get an old one, replace at least the electrolytic filter caps. I have replaced the paper caps in mine too. I cross check its output using a digital short wave radio which I bought from e-bay. You could also take it to an electronics repair place and have them check the alignment instead. My own sig gen is actually so close with its output that I don't really have to double check it with the radio, I do it out of habit.

I realize that all this sounds like you are going to have to buy a lot of stuff to repair antique radios. Yes, you actually are. It may take time to get it all together, but that will give you time to read and study so you will have some knowledge to help you when you start to put those tools and instruments to work.

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - Bob White12 - 01-15-2020

the thing is parts/equipment are hard to get out here and I want to do the bare minimum to get a functioning radio. I don't want to buy this equipment then never use it again I only have the radio and there aren't many swap meets or things for sale in my radio. also is there a way to test the heaters in there tubes? thank you guys for the help!

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - Radioroslyn - 01-15-2020

>is there a way to test the heaters in there tubes?
Yes you can use an ohm meter.

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - Bob White12 - 01-15-2020

what posts do I test them too? also what should I do before powering it up for the first time? I know I need some kind of rheostat to put power on slowly

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - morzh - 01-15-2020

Find what the tube is. (6A3).
Find the datasheet for it. As a quick reference Radiomuseum is good, I just type "6A3 tube" in google search and it likely will give Radiomuseum page for the tube. It will have the symbol with the pinout.
The pinout is shown such that you need to look at the pins and then the nimbering goes CW. For octals the#1 is the first after the key. For 6A3 these are the two fat pins.
Typically marked as "f" or "h" (filament or heater" in drawings.

Take your ohmmeter to the pins. It should show some tens of Ohms. Open is bad. Usually there are ni shorts across heaters.

PS. If not anything else, do buy the multimeter.

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - Bob White12 - 01-16-2020

One last thing: I have found a schematic but its poor quality and only two pages. is there anywhere I can find the full thing or is there a radio that uses the same guts that I could use?

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - 462ron - 01-16-2020

Hi Bob, if you don't want to invest in all the equipment and tools that it takes to do a proper and safe restore of your radio, you might want to try and find a radio club near you to see if there is anyone that could take this project on or at least help you along the way. Especially if you are not familiar with vacuum tube technology. On the other hand, you might find that this hobby is addictive like so many of us have and might be worth the initial investment! If you do decide on doing this, there are many on here that will help with any questions along the way. Have fun and good luck on your project!

Ron

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - morzh - 01-16-2020

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/pagesbymodel/123/M0013123.pdf

Is this what you have found?

If it is and the quality is still not acceptable, then you could order a high quality prin from Chuck Schwark (hope he still makes them), it is a nominal fee of $7 or about that, or invest in the actual Rider manual which takes two ofull shelves.

Or ask around, maybe someone who has a good print could scan it for you.

Mike

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - Radioroslyn - 01-16-2020

To simplify what Morzh (Mike) said your set has 3 different style tubes in it. Those being 4 pin, 5pin, and 6pin. 4pin tubes and 6pin tubes have two fat pins. On the 4 pin jobs it's pins 1&4 and on the 6pin jobs it's pins 1&6. these would be the heater pins. The 5pin tubes are a little trickier it's the two pins that are closest together pins 1&5. Any questions you can google 37 tube or 76 tube which are the two 5pin tube your set uses.

The way Philco set up the schematic for the 116B (big honkin' table set) and 116X console) they share the same one for the most part. The physical chassis is the same but some of the parts and layout are different. Also bear in mind that this service information was meant for service techs that were working on radios day in and day out not hobbyist 80yrs later. The question does pop up from time to time where can I find a good sharp clean schematic of my radio. Unfortunately we're are the mercy of the 1920's and 30's draftsman good bad or indifferent. I find that the Philco ones are pretty good, the part location numbers are hard to read a lot of the time but the drawings themselves are good. Try a Crosley one time it'll make your hair smoke! There are three different sources free I know of the Library here, Nostalgiaair http://www.nostalgiaair.org/pagesbymodel/123/M0013123.pdf most of the time they are pretty awful do to the scan rate and https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Rider/36/Rider-1936-PQR.pdf Scroll down to pg 24 of 302. That one is pretty good and has the service info too.

GL

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - mikethedruid - 01-16-2020

It no longer takes a lot of bookshelf space to have the COMPLETE Rider's manuals. You can buy them scanned in hi def on DVD from eBay. I HIGHLY recommend people get a copy. I have used one for years. I actually have two sets, an old one which is scanned about the same definition as what is on Nostalgia Air, and one scanned at a higher resolution, which I use mostly these days.    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Riders-Perpetual-Troubleshooters-Manuals-1-23-DVD-Hi-Resolution/390982614066?hash=item5b08613c32:g:h1YAAOSwQYZWu49G

RE: Barn find Philco 116x - Bob White12 - 01-16-2020

Gee thanks! this info is in valuable to me