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[split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - Printable Version

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[split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - tmurphy - 11-11-2024

Ron

I also just changed the filter capacitors to 21 10uf, 21A 22uf, & 21B 10uf.  I believe I have the 5 wires that were coming out of the can correct.  Attached is a drawing I made.  Can you tell me ifI have this right?  I have a loud hum with the volume down.  Any help is greatly appreciated.  

Todd

RE: Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - GarySP - 11-12-2024

Hello and welcome to the Phorum, Todd! Someone else will probably assist you with your radio. Sadly, Ron passed on almost a year ago now. Photographs would be helpful. Take care and BE HEALTHY! Gary

RE: Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - MrFixr55 - 11-12-2024

Hi T Murphy,

First off, welcome to the Phorum.  Lots of Phine Phriendly Pholks Phull of Philco Pfacts. (Notice a pattern here?)

It is kind of hard to do these from drawings.  Your writing is like mine, therefore you are a genius. 

Below is a copy of the schematic of the power supply for the most important connections.


   

The power supplies are a little more complex than the ones of the late 1940s to 1960s.  This is because of how they obtained grid bias.  Note the center tap of the HV (High voltage) secondary winding that supplies the rectifier.  This is the most negative leg of the power supply.  On newer sets, it is grounded, but on older sets such as this one, it is the most negative point and is not B-, it is more like C-.  B- on this set is Chassis ground, and is dev eloped through R77, a multi-tapped resistor.  This resistor develops the various grid bias (C-) voltages needed for the output tubes, 1st AF tube, etc..  Therefore, cap 21B connects between the junction of the rectifier cathode and input to the field coil (the most positive part of this power supply) and the junction of the HV Secondary center tap and R77 pin 4 (the most negative point in the power supply.  This is the most important connection. (R77 has 5 pins. The way I am counting this, Pin 1 is chassis ground.)  The schematic shows that the wire for the positive terminal of C21B is blue.  The color of the negative is not shown, so you must verify the connection.  If you only cut the wires at the cap, the positive connection may be correct.  Trace it to the rectifier socket.

The next most important filter cap is 21A.  The positive connection (red) is on the other side of the field coil, the junction between the field coil, output transformer center tap, etc. (the main B+ line for the radio), and pin 2 of R77.  I question this connection; I think it should be chassis ground as it would be in many other radios.  However, both the Code 121 and Code 122 versions of the 41-68 chassis show this negative connected to Pin 2 of R77.  Consider moving that connection to chassis ground only if all else fails.

The positive terminal for the final cap, C21 (green) connects between R20, R26 and R36.  The negative terminal is chassis ground.  However, I don't think that this is your issue, as having the volume control full negative minimizes the input from the circuits that are fed from the voltage across this cap.

One other thing is to verify the wiring and condition of R77. With tubes and speaker connection out, measuring between ground and pin 4 of R77 should yield about 322 Ohms +/- about 10-20%.  With everything in and running, CAEFULLY measure the voltage across those points.  The voltage across these 2 terminals should be about 18-22 V or something close to it.

Hope this helps!!

Best Regards, 

John, MrFixr55

RE: Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - morzh - 11-12-2024

Guys,

A suggestion.
I think it would benefit us all if we started to create new topics instead of reviving the old ones.
It is fine to use links and materials from them, but it is, after all, a new problem, and therefore should be a new topic.

Mike.

RE: Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - tmurphy - 11-12-2024

John

Thank you for the detailed response.
I checked my connection again based on the schematic and your suggestions.
I am attaching photos of my connections so hopefully you can see if anything looks wrong. 
I also just tried moving 21A negative from Pin 2 of 77 to chassis ground.  No luck.  I still have the loud hum.
I will check the voltage next.  

It's important to note that I did not get the hum until the Bakelite #81 capacitors were changed to safety capacitors and the Electrolytic can #21 were changed.
The radio works but the hum is over powering.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks!

Todd

RE: [split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - GarySP - 11-12-2024

I agree with Morzh. I've split this issue to it's own thread. Take care and BE HEALTHY! Gary

RE: [split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - tmurphy - 11-12-2024

Gary

Thank you.

Todd

RE: [split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - morzh - 11-12-2024

Does the cap pair #61 (input filter) have its center point to the chassis?

Actually, has the radio been fully re-capped?

RE: [split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - tmurphy - 11-13-2024

#61 was replaced as well as all other caps.
I will check the connection of #61.

Any other thoughts?

RE: [split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - morzh - 11-13-2024

You could start from Grounding the wiper of the Volume Pot, and see if the hum goes away.
Trace it form there, if it goes away.
If it does not, start looking at your output amp stage and its power.

RE: [split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - tmurphy - 11-13-2024

Sounds good.  Do you have a picture that shows the "wiper"?
I am new at this and want to make sure I have this correct.

Thanks you!

RE: [split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - morzh - 11-13-2024

Wiper is the middle contact of the potentiometer. On your volume control, there will be 4 pins: one is kinda by itself, and three are the pot itself with the two ends and the wiper. It "wipes" the internal resistive element, changing the resistance, hence the name.
On the sch it is usually the one with the arrow on it.

RE: [split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - MrFixr55 - 11-13-2024

Hi Todd,

Sorry, I don't see a clear view of Resistor 77. You may have to (gulp) move some of the wires. The leftmost of the 3 caps in the 2nd pic appears to have the + lead to the cathode of th rectifier. this is correct. R77 is very buried. The negative of this cap should go to the 4th terminal from the left of thos resistor, joined with a lead from the transformer HV secondary. If not so, this may be the cause of the hum. Also, ensure that the wire from terminal 2 is not touching terminal 1 (ground.

Unfortunately, you are dealing with a rubber wire nightmare here.

Will try to get back on tonight or tomorrow, gotta go to church.

RE: [split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - tmurphy - 11-13-2024

MrFixr55

The cap to the left is 21B.  I have the negative tied to the ground with two terminal points.  (See first pic below).  I then have 21A + Red wire to the second terminal (Right) of the two terminal points and the - negative yellow going to the 4th terminal from the left R77. (Second pic)
21 + goes to the bottom terminal pin 2. (10 terminal points) - negative goes to the chassis ground which I put a terminal strip (See bottom 2 pics).

Let me know if you can see it clearly.  

Thanks!

Todd

RE: [split] Newbie questions RE: Philco 41-608 - tmurphy - 11-13-2024

Morzh

I changed the capacitor at the volume control as part of the full recap.  Just to confirm the 3rd pin "wiper" has one side of the wired capacitor.    Here are the pics.
Let me know.

Thanks!

Todd