Another British Philco - Printable Version
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Another British Philco - Arran - 11-08-2012
Speaking of British Philcos, here is a set that I ran into the other day:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Very-rare-Philco-Baby-Grand-vintage-radio-table-top-wireless-Model-261-1933-/350632512876?pt=UK_Collectables_RadioTelevision_Telephony_SM&hash=item51a3538d6c
It looks like a Philco 60 or 66 chassis with a shadowmeter added. The cabinet is very interesting, a horizontal mantle cabinet with the styling of an inclined sounding board console, the grille reminds me of my Canadian Philco 3118. British Philco seemed to like using rather elaborate cabinet designs, not only compared to American Philcos but compared to other British sets. Many of the sets from there, even tombstones, seem to have rather utilitarian cabinet designs, like a plywood box, with maybe walnut veneer on the front and few grille bars, sometimes just plain grille cloth.
Regards
Arran
RE: Another British Philco - Ron Ramirez - 11-09-2012
Arran
Thanks for the heads up...I bought it!
Lucky for me, I asked the seller before bidding if he would be willing to ship to the USA...he agreed...
I've been looking at pictures of some of the older UK Philcos, and it is apparent that once they began to build their own cabinets after 1931-32 or so, that their 1933-37 table models have better styling and, often, better use of veneer than their USA counterparts...sometimes much better.
RE: Another British Philco - Arran - 11-09-2012
Ron;
I didn't know if you were interested in buying it but I figured that maybe you would have been interested in saving the pictures for the gallery. When it finally arrives this set needs a more in-depth examination of the chassis. On first examination it looks like a Philco 60 chassis in a horizontal cabinet, but it also has a 10 inch console speaker and what looks like a three gang tuning condenser in addition to the shadow meter.
There is another British Philco to look out for, there is a tombstone set that has a very similar cabinet to a Canadian Philco model 3118. There was an episode of Doctor Who a few years ago called "The Empty Child" that had such a set in the store room of a hospital.
Just out of curiosity have you acquired a Philco model 444 "People's Set" yet? I saw one in person about ten years ago and was astounded at how large the cabinet was and how thick they made the Bakelite, it was as thick as an Admiral floor model TV cabinet.
Regards
Arran
RE: Another British Philco - Ron Ramirez - 11-10-2012
Arran
No, I don't have a 444 "People's Set" or any of its siblings. To be honest, I'm not really interested in that model.
I would love to find a 1934 model 1263 Baby Grand...very cool cabinet, in my opinion...there is a photo of one in the UK Philco section of this site:
http://www.philcoradio.com/world/uk.htm
Maybe one of these days I'll try to find a 1263. I really need to put myself on a radio buying freeze for awhile. I wasn't going to buy any more sets, but then you posted the link to the 261...so it's your fault that I bought another UK Philco.
Just kidding! I have managed to get rid of several fixer-uppers and some sets I had lost interest in...I'll be selling a few more over the next several months, too. Trouble is, what has left has been replaced by a UK Philco (282 Empire Five), a few Scotts, a McMurdo Silver Masterpiece VI...I need to get rid of a few more sets and not replace them with anything.I noticed the three-gang tuning condenser, shadowmeter, and 10-1/2 inch "H" series speaker. That 261 is one HUGE table model set!
Yet the chassis does look like a 60, overall. I think I have the Service Bulletin for this model in my archives...I need to go look at it.
RE: Another British Philco - Arran - 11-10-2012
Ron;
At least the British Philcos are something that not everyone would have, like a Philco 20 or a 70, at least not over here. Some people over here do have a 444 or one of it's siblings, it's an interesting set but often way overpriced for what it is, which was an entry level radio. I believe that if I were to get one I would try to find an example that was missing or needing the PENDD valve/tube to keep the price down, I already have a work around in mind for that. The reason being is that the PENDD was only used in the "People's Radios", and so it's hard to find and expensive, so that would be a turn off to many buyers.
I too have a lot of fixer uppers, though most I bought because they did interest me. The ones that don't interest me are ones that came in a package deal with something that did and will likely be headed out the door after an electrical restoration, aside from 1960s plastic crap.
Regards
Arran
RE: Another British Philco - Ron Ramirez - 11-10-2012
Well, as for the fixer-uppers I let go of, I was likewise interested in them when I bought them of course, but then lost interest after they sat around for awhile.
Yes, of all the UK Philco sets, the 444 and its siblings are the most popular - there doesn't seem to be much interest in the others.
When you come up with your PEN DD substitute, please post it in Philco Electronic Restoration.
I would assume you would use a 6V6GT with a couple germanium diodes?
RE: Another British Philco - TA Forbes - 11-10-2012
Here is a pic of a UK Philco I missed a couple of years ago...
RE: Another British Philco - Ron Ramirez - 11-10-2012
Oh, that's it! A 1263!
RE: Another British Philco - TA Forbes - 11-10-2012
I wish I had gotten it, BUT I did get a nice 38-5 tombstone and a neat model 34 cathedral that had been converted to AC.
RE: Another British Philco - Arran - 11-11-2012
Ron;
Interesting that you should mention the siblings' of the "People's Set". I did a little research and found out that while the model 444 uses this whacky PEN DD 61 tube there is another called a "People's Set De Luxe" also known as an A-537. The A-537 uses five tubes and dispenses with the PEN DD 61 tube in favor of a 42 and a 75, and they added a shortwave band. I have no idea if the set I ran into 10 years ago was one of these or the 444, but from what I could find the five tube version is definitely the better of the AC models to have. There were also series string AC/DC versions and battery operated version, both of which also had five tubes, and a battery version with only three tubes.
Strange that there isn't much interest over there in the other British Philco models, but then again it's just as well since that keeps the prices down on the rest. Maybe they like the "People's Sets" because they are the most British in design or it's a similar situation to the Sparton sets over here where people can't get beyond the mirrored models. There was someone on the other forum that turned down a Philco Empire 22 (basically a 38-690) simply because it wouldn't have fit in their upstairs room. If I were in that situation the TV would have been kicked out of the living room to fit it in, but Limey's are strange that way.
Regards
Arran
RE: Another British Philco - Ron Ramirez - 11-20-2012
I certainly wouldn't turn down an Empire Twenty-Two...
The UK Philco 261 arrived last night, only taking three days to get here. Wow, it really is a huge radio! As you guessed, the chassis is the same size as a 60, and looks much like a 60 only with a shadowmeter and three-gang tuning condenser. Instead of having AM and the "police" band as a 60 would, the 261 has AM and long wave. Plus a four-point tone control, and a 10-1/2 inch H series Philco speaker. It's a really neat "Inclined Sounding Board" setup.
I have not taken it apart yet and examined it in depth. I may do that after Thanksgiving.
I'll start a thread on it later, with photos.
RE: Another British Philco - Radioroslyn - 11-20-2012
Very kewl!!!
Terry
RE: Another British Philco - TA Forbes - 11-21-2012
Interesting mix of features!
Looking forward to seeing your thread on this set!
RE: Another British Philco - Ron Ramirez - 01-04-2013
Well, let's just make this the thread on the 261.
I was looking at some pictures online, and I see the 261 was also available in a cabinet that is nearly identical to the USA model 37C:
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philco_261.html
as a tombstone, very similar to the Canadian 3118B:
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philco_mezzo_grand_261.html
and as a console, which looks like a small version of a USA 91X:
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philco_console_261.html
I suspect the 261 that looks like a 37C and the 91X-esque console were issued first, and the tombstone and the "Five Star Baby Grand" set like mine were issued later.
Photos forthcoming...
RE: Another British Philco - Ron Ramirez - 01-04-2013
Here is the Philco 261 on my workbench.
[Image: http://philcoradio.com/images/phorum/261/2013-01-04_00005_zpsf8e5ff9d.jpg]
Did I mention that this set is huge?
Not only that, notice how the front panel is inclined. A sort of Inclined Sounding Board table model.
Now, a back view:
[Image: http://philcoradio.com/images/phorum/261/2013-01-04_00006_zpsc793bce0.jpg]
It appears that this set once had a back, but it is now long gone.
And unlike the earlier 261 shown at Radiomuseum which has a cabinet nearly identical to the USA 37C:
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philco_261.html
this 261 has a 10-1/2 inch H series speaker. The earlier 261 shown at Radiomuseum has an 8 inch speaker.
See the large paper on the right side of the cabinet? Here are a couple close-ups:
[Image: http://philcoradio.com/images/phorum/261/2013-01-04_00008_zps49ed334e.jpg]
[Image: http://philcoradio.com/images/phorum/261/2013-01-04_00007_zps8f079815.jpg]
Sorry about the poor quality of the first of the two above; for some reason, my camera's flash would not go off. It did on the second one, so it is much clearer.
But anyway, you can see on the paper that the chassis and valves were made in the USA, and the cabinet was made in England.
More to come...