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Philco 650B, newly refinished - Printable Version

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RE PHILCO 650B - Guest - 04-03-2008

Now that is quality workmanship

BART

- BDM - 04-04-2008

Ron, I might be interested in talking with him on my cabinets. BTW gents, I aligned up that Zenith 9-S-264 shutter dial chassis #5905 tonight, along with another chassis from a 9-S-262. Same chassis. Both work quite well with a nice dial calibration. But, and a big but. Zenith really blows when it comes to actual RF alignment ability, or the lack thereof!

Well, sorry, but the 650 walks away from it on SW. I mean there is a noticeable difference in sensitivity and selectivity. Now to be fair, I really tweaked those IFs tight on the Zeniths. In the BCB they're close, but it's still obvious to the discriminating ear the Philco has it here also. Now one big thing the Philco has over this Zenith is selectivity. It's somewhat hard to tune WABC next to 760 WJR with the Zenith, easy with the Philco. Both have excellent sound quality though I like the lighter base response from the Philco. Add to this it's capable of more undistorted volume with it's P-P audio section.

Of course the Zenith has one H**l'of a nice looking dial. Hard to beat for me. Also I find the Philco easy to tune around with compared to the shutter dial. It's slowed incremental tuning makes for a long wrist-twist as you tune around. The dial motor works, but it's been my experience as they heat up from use they naturally slow down. Sometimes to the point of not working. Terrible if you're cruising the bands. Bottom line is the Philco may not be as pretty too many, but it's a far better driver! I've also played with other makes/models like RCAs "T" series higher tube count sets. Very nice sets also and I would say the equal of any of the Philco's in their class. The Zenith performs nice, very nice. But the 650 seems like it's hot-rodded in comparison.

Granted, I'm doing a very un-scientific test. I probably could have used my scope and really looked at these sets in operation, maybe some other time. I wanted to test them in the drivers seat. I consider the 650 pretty much a comparable set to the 9 Zenith shutter dials.

Zenith shutter dial
Better looking dial arrangement;

Poorer performance in sensitivity and especially selectivity;

Very good sound quality, more distortion at higher volumes and poorer bass response IMHO;

Pain in the "arss" to band cruise with;

Philco 650
Average looking dial though not bad. Very easy to read;

Better performance in sensitivity & selectivity;

Very good sound quality with better base response and less distortion at higher volume levels;

A "user friendly" set to band cruise with through and through;

Bottom line, both sets seem to perform nicely. I've played with far worse models that some folks consider good Icon_confused

Sorry for this rambling but I'm thinking out loud again. I'll post a vid of one of these Zeniths tomorrow. The average Joe wouldn't probably never make note of these differences, but I'm silly stupid about a sets performance. Since both Zeniths performed almost exactly the same, I made no reference between these two sets. It only confirms with me that they're working as they should. Hope you enjoyed my not so scientific rambling analysis Icon_lol

RE: Philco 650B, newly refinished - BDM - 04-04-2008

Here's the Zenith vid. Compare it to the Philco.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0avkCVas8PM

- Ron Ramirez - 04-05-2008

Hi Brian

Regarding the cabinet work, check your PM.

Off to view your latest video now... Icon_smile

- radiorich - 05-22-2008

Hello Ron,
just one word WoW Icon_biggrin
That friend of your sure does nice work.
sincerely Radio Rich

- signaltracer - 05-25-2008

Suh-weet! Give ya a dollah for it!

That's a beaut, Ron, and definitely a keeper. My hat's off to Barry's skill.

Charlie

- etech - 07-05-2008

Hi Ron,

I'm getting ready to apply the toner to my 650B and I have some questions about the look of your refinished cabinet, if you don't mind. The finish on mine was mostly gone when I got it. In fact it looked very similiar to your before picture.

Here is my original cabinet before any work was done.
[Image: http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q136/etech_photos/Philco650BCab.jpg]

I can't really tell from the photo of your refinished cabinet, much about the dark color on the sides. I think you said it is very dark brown. Can you see the grain pattern in the veneer or is it pretty much occluded? Also. does the dark brown have a reddish cast (maroon) under the light or is it more of a flat (greenish tint or less red) type of dark brown? I am asking these questions just to get a sense of which color toners I might start with. This is not a critical thing, as I can always remove the toner and re-spray with a more suitable color if I am not satisfied. I have done this before, lol.

Anyway, for a more reddish dark brown I would use the Mohawk Van Dyke Brown with multiple coats. For a darker brown with a flat or greenish (less red) tint, I would use the Mohawk Extra Dark Walnut, again applying enough coats to get the desired look. Both of these are pigmented toners and will eventually occlude the grain, if applied in heavy enough coats. Any description you can provide would help me in an initial application of these toners.

Thanks,

Ed

- Michael Dennis - 07-05-2008

BDM Wrote:Here's the Zenith vid. Compare it to the Philco.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0avkCVas8PM

Just saw the video today. Just one word for that Zenith dial and eye tube: WOW!!!

Mike

- Ron Ramirez - 07-05-2008

Hi Ed

Barry used Van Dyke Brown on the top, sides and trim of my 650B cabinet. If I had it to do over again, I would have asked for Extra Dark Walnut, but nevertheless, mine looks one heck of a lot better than it did originally!

Actually, Ed, it is Van Dyke Brown that has the greenish cast in bright light, while Extra Dark Walnut is redder.

Yes, the dark parts of the cabinet are toned to the point that the grain does not show.

Hope this helps - Good luck with your cabinet! Icon_smile

- Michael Dennis - 07-05-2008

And it's a beautiful radio you have there, Ron!

Mike

- etech - 07-05-2008

Quote:Hope this helps - Good luck with your cabinet!

Yes Ron, absolutely! Thank you. That will save me some time.

Ed

- etech - 07-07-2008

I finished the toning on Philco 650B cabinet today. I used the Mohawk Extra Dark Walnut toner on the sides and trim. I used a light coat of Mohawk Ultra Medium Brown Walnut on the front panel, just to add a little warmth. Here are some pics.

Front
[Image: http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q136/etech_photos/Philco650BTone5.jpg]

Left side
[Image: http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q136/etech_photos/Philco650BTone3.jpg]

Right Side
[Image: http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q136/etech_photos/Philco650BTone4.jpg]

It will be several weeks before I can spray the final lacquer clearcoats. I must spray the clearcoats outside, so I have to wait for the right weather. I prefer a low humudity day when the temps are not above 80F. Anyway, I will have some time to decide how I like the looks of my toning and whether I want to make any changes, before I spray the clearcoats.

Oh, I should show a pic of the unrestored cabinet. Here it is, in all of its resplendent glory.
[Image: http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q136/etech_photos/Philco650BCab.jpg]

Ed

- BDM - 07-07-2008

Ed, that's looking good. I like the "dark brown" you used. Icon_wink

- etech - 07-07-2008

Thanks Brian. I think the color on the trim and sides is just right. I am not happy with the look of the front panel. It has too much red to me. I may re-strip the front panel and use the Perfect Brown toner on it instead.

Ed

- BDM - 07-08-2008

Ed, after reviewing mine, including the several other 36 era sets I have. I believe you're right. It looks a little to "red". My 650B and 640X both are in pretty good shape. The front panels are in good to excellent condition, and have a darker brown look with deeper "tone" for lack of a better word. Not criticizing, but since I'm sure you want it close. That's my observation Icon_wink

P.S., you can see my front panel on my 650X below my name. It's front panel is also in nice shape. But the rest needs refinishing Icon_confused