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An unknown thing of beauty... - Printable Version

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RE: An unknown thing of beauty... - Art Hoch - 03-10-2016

This may be too late to help you but I solved a BIG stain problem on a Z chairiside I have years ago.  I miixed whiting compound (what was used years ago when people mixed their own paint) with water to a paste consistency and applied it to the stained area.  I let it dry 24 hours and then tenderly scraped and wiped off the powder with a cloth.  Much improved.  Repeated that 4 times.  The last time it did not improve so I stopped.  After refinishing the cabinet you CANNOT tell where the stain was.  (There were 2 large areas of stain.)  Cheap and easy fix.  Have before and after pictures if you want them.

RE: An unknown thing of beauty... - kiwi_steve - 03-15-2016

Thanks for that... if whiting is calcium carbonate then I can get that locally for very little cost... so I might give it a go. I also saw that solvents work instead of water as well... anyone know if that would be better, or worse?

Cheers

Steve

RE: An unknown thing of beauty... - OldRestorer - 03-15-2016

Not sure Steve,
I use wood bleach only.

RE: An unknown thing of beauty... - Arran - 03-16-2016

 I tried phosphoric acid to remove black stains in walnut veneer and it seems to work, i brush it on the area affected, leave it there until the stain fades, then wipe it off with a damp paper towel or rag, then dry it with a hairdryer. Now someone on the alternative forum didn't think this was a good idea but it worked for me, I guess the stains are iron based since the magic ingredient in rust remover took them off. With a black mark as large as the one on the second cabinet what have to got to loose, it's either try some chemicals to re-veneer the cabinet.
Regards
Arran

P.S Wood bleach usually consists of oxalic acid, though there are other types of wood bleach including chlorine or peroxide.

RE: An unknown thing of beauty... - kiwi_steve - 04-19-2016

Just a quick update on this:

Cabinet:
I've finished the cabinet (finished is a relative term - its neither perfect nor 'restored' - I'd call it 'rejuvenated with patina'  Icon_confused Its not bad for a first attempt at cabinet recovery and its much better than it was.  I used locally available products - wood filler of a similar tone to fill the damaged bits and nail holes, shellac as a sanding sealer, then oxalic acid to remove the stain (as much as possible) - yes, I know... wrong way around.  I had already sealed it thinking I'd leave the stains then found some cheap Oxalic acid so tried it over the shellac thinking I could strip it all if needed but it cut straight through and did a reasonable job... once cleaned and dried I applied black Kiwi shoe polish to the rounded edges (on advice that it was a similar composition to furniture wax - so far so good) and buffed that off, leaving them slightly darker - the shellac or what was left of it presumably stopped it from intruding too deep into the timber.  Then a thinned black oil paint on a small brush to re-blacken the inside edges of the fretwork... this is the bit I'm least happy with and would take any advice on the best way to do it.  Once that was done I applied a red mahogany stain to the entire cabinet and 0000 steel wooled the cabinet to flatten it again once that had dried.  I finished the cabinet in a dark oak Briwax and buffed it out once done with a clean dry rag.

Big experiment, but reasonably happy with the result.  It wasn't perfect to start with, its now less imperfect Icon_smile

From this:
[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160124_093626_zpsvzhmavfu.jpg]

To this:
[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/IMG_20160418_001452_zpsx62ippos.jpg]

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/IMG_20160418_001513_zpsjhsuhwgg.jpg]


Chassis:
This has consumed quite a bit of time and while not a full restoration its been an intensive rejuvination with a lot of elbow grease and some experimentation.  There is a full write-up on ARF but here are the highlights.  

New (old) transformer that actually looks right and fits (from a NZ model Gulbransen which I believe has its roots in the Montgomery Ward camp somewhere).  Voltages are pretty close, slightly low but I can live with that.  Rewired it with new wire then fitted it.  Replaced out of spec components and tidied up the initial rewire and recap I did.

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_121649_zpsiwgbsvut.jpg]


I've re-wired the lights (because the wire looked grotty compared to the rest of the chassis) and replaced the grommets so it looks original (apart from the heatshrink), and if someone wanted to they could fit normal bulbs to it - but thats not what I did...

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_121659_zpsyzu1pdzg.jpg]

Small bridge rectifier, 470uF electro, old bulb with the guts smashed out of it, 2 small sections of flexible 5V LED strip.  Heatshrink over the whole shebang... Fitted up it looks like this:

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_135454_zpsxwsnksm3.jpg]

I'll know better how it looks later tonight, but it seems to light relatively evenly (shining the LEDs sideways rather than from the back helped).  It was just an experiment, but its completely removable by just taking the bulb base out - everything is mounted on it... so I can put normal bulbs in it if I don't like the look.

And it looks like this now:

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_144932_zpsttqkegvm.jpg]

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_144944_zpsjqv51lor.jpg]

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_145018_zpsufstizto.jpg]

There is still a few things to do.

- Find a couple of period correct electros to bolt in for appearances sake
- Polish the second tube shield.  I have a matching pair of NZ Columbus ones one of which is polished and fitted.  The scruffy one is (I think) original but I only have one of those... Its just fitted for alignment purposes.
- bolt in the padder... just remembered thats floating in the chassis - I took it out for derusting so I didn't fill it with vinegar.
- replace the wiring to the speaker and tidy the speaker up - job for another day
- replace my experimental dial cord/band.  Originally probably flat braid, I tried a wide hair band and 2 wraps of dial cord - neither is proving satisfactory.  I'll go buy some flat shoelaces later and try that.
- gill cloth in the cabinet.  I've cut it out to the right shape, just need to glue it in
- anything else I've forgotten.


Cheers

Steve

RE: An unknown thing of beauty... - kiwi_steve - 04-19-2016

OOPS!

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_172146_zps1dxw5gwu.jpg]

Don't ignore the burning smell just because you can't see smoke!  Icon_lol  My burn in test time on the bench was short lived... I suspect the curve of the tuning assembly caused the copper at the end of the LED strip to short to the chassis... Scratch one test LED setup, and open all the doors and windows for a couple of hours... It still stinks in the workshop!

I didn't see it initially because the dial was on... when I finally clicked and lifted it, this is what I was greeted with:

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_171956_zpswhtofp9e.jpg]

So I spent some time and rebuilt it, bigger better stronger faster! Icon_biggrin  I might need to incorporate a dimmer function!  The LED strip is now stuck to an intermediate thick insulating layer of high speed tape (not sure what else it might be known as - we used it in the air force on the leading edge of things like Iroquois rotor blades to protect them from impact).  Heres a comparison.

No dial, lamp then LED:
[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_225204_zpsiumgun6h.jpg]

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_224859_zpsisg1hsib.jpg]


Dial in place, lamp then LED
[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_225230_zpsbykn0hhv.jpg]

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160419_224611_zpsozk6iysx.jpg]

RE: An unknown thing of beauty... - radiohenry - 04-20-2016

(02-09-2016, 08:22 PM)kiwi_steve Wrote:  
(02-09-2016, 06:15 PM)Kestas Wrote:  Can you replace the drive belt (string) with an o-ring?  There has been tips lately that one can use a garter spring in place of a belt or o-ring.  Garter springs should last virtually forever.

I don't think so - I can't easily get a closed-loop in place without serious disassembly.  I have some wide flat hair-bands that I'm going to try super-gluing to a suitable length... failing that I'll await the day I need to replace the current setup...
 Steve,
    I looked up the dial belt. You need a JFD # 23. I expect that you should be able to purchase one "down under " for a few dollars. You will also need to look at the condition of the rubber insulating washers used to mount the tuning capacitor. Over time they deteriorate and shrink causing the length of the belt reqiured to change .( become smaller) . If you can't find a belt locally send me a pm with your address and I will put the one I have in the mail for you.
          Good Luck,
                 Henry
 

RE: An unknown thing of beauty... - kiwi_steve - 04-20-2016

(04-20-2016, 06:33 PM)radiohenry Wrote:  
(02-09-2016, 08:22 PM)kiwi_steve Wrote:  
(02-09-2016, 06:15 PM)Kestas Wrote:  Can you replace the drive belt (string) with an o-ring?  There has been tips lately that one can use a garter spring in place of a belt or o-ring.  Garter springs should last virtually forever.

I don't think so - I can't easily get a closed-loop in place without serious disassembly.  I have some wide flat hair-bands that I'm going to try super-gluing to a suitable length... failing that I'll await the day I need to replace the current setup...
 Steve,
    I looked up the dial belt. You need a JFD # 23. I expect that you should be able to purchase one "down under " for a few dollars. You will also need to look at the condition of the rubber insulating washers used to mount the tuning capacitor. Over time they deteriorate and shrink causing the length of the belt reqiured to change .( become smaller) . If you can't find a belt locally send me a pm with your address and I will put the one I have in the mail for you.
          Good Luck,
                 Henry
 

Thanks Henry, I'm having trouble getting anything to be reliable in place of a belt.  Knots cause it to jam up, multiple loops of dial cord cause it to occasionally throw one turn off a pulley- in turn causing a jam, anything elastic causes it to have a jerky reaction to tuning... I'll flick you a PM shortly.

And yes, I've replaced the grommets under the tuning condenser - I generally do this as a matter of course since most of them are well and truly deteriorated - the ones in this were rock hard.

Cheers

Steve

RE: An unknown thing of beauty... - OldRestorer - 04-21-2016

Wow, Looking good buddy!

Me

RE: An unknown thing of beauty... - kiwi_steve - 04-23-2016

Quote:Wow, Looking good buddy!

Thanks, thats high praise indeed.

Well, to the untrained eye its finished.  Thanks to Henry I have a dial drive belt coming - because this set has resisted all attempts to have something cludged in its place.  The closest I got was actually using the same high speed tape I used to insulate the LED strip from the metalwork... this worked perfectly for a few hours and then it split, and it showed signs of having started to crack in other places as well - either its expiry date of 1987 played a part or its just not designed to be cut into a 3/16" strip and taped to itself in a band under tension.

I've also just realised I still haven't screwed the padder back to the chassis - and when I looked at it the other day it looked like a nightmare because the bolts are right under the tuning cap.

I also have two knobs that I think are right, and one I found in my collection that looked ok with them... all three need cleaned up and finished.

I've manually set the station to the one I mostly listen to, and put it all away for the time being because I started another one yesterday thinking I could knock it out in a day... what was I thinking?! lol  Anyway, more on that shortly in another thread...

Here's a reminder of how it looked when I decided to find out just what the heck it was:

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160124_093617_zpsaz4ycy0z.jpg]

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160124_093643_zpsfxow0zvh.jpg]


And what a little(?!) spit'n'polish can do:

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160424_000009_zpsrwery69o.jpg]

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160424_000255_zpsdt4tldzd.jpg]

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160424_000441_zpswt7qj23c.jpg]

[Image: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/4wdstuff/Airline%2062-316/20160424_000527_zpsg4ulcwws.jpg]

I'm pleased with the result... but I'm also pleased I'm nearly done.