Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - Printable Version
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RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - MrFixr55 - 01-24-2023
No pic but have sound. Do you have high voltage? Ground a good, insulated screwdriver at the blade to the chassis with a long wire and carefully hold it near but not on the CRT Anode connection. Work with one hand; keep the other hand in your pocket. You should be able to draw an arc about 1/4 to 1/2 inch or more. If no HV, don't go rushing to buy a CRT. Look at the horizontal output tube (the fat one above the HV cage). If the plate is glowing red, SHUT DOWN fast. The Horizontal Output tube depends on a signal from the Horizontal Oscillator. If the coupling cap is shorted, The Horizontal Output tube will draw too much current and burn out, possibly taking the flyback along with it.
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - Brian joy - 01-24-2023
I will definitely try that tonight. So just having the wire near the anode connection will draw an arc even with the rubber boot on it?? Thanks for the tip! As always its appreciated
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - MrFixr55 - 01-24-2023
Yes, it will, think of testing the spark on a lawn mower or car. Do remember to GROUND the screwdriver shaft to the Chassis! and use a screwdriver with a rubber handle and that the shaft does not extend out the back of the screwdriver. Don't directly touch the anode clip, but if the circuit is good, you should get a nice blue spark at between 1/4" and 1/2". If no spark, shut down and perform the same test at the plate cap of the HV Rectifier in the cage. Again, BE CAREFUL! Use the 1 hand in the pocket technique and ensure that the screwdriver is well grounded to the chassis.
Early Television Museum has a very short guide on working on TVs which may be helpful:
https://www.earlytelevision.org/restoration_advice.html
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - Brian joy - 01-24-2023
Gonna have to buy you a drink after all this help! I'll be safe. Fully understand about grounding (and not completing the ground through myself!) I'll be sure to let you know how this works out. Appreciate the link I will read this 1st.
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - MrFixr55 - 01-24-2023
Hi Brian,
I surely apologize for being repetitive about safety, it comes from my current position as a "Customer Technical Specialist" for the company that I worked for, for 40 years. Our calls are recorded and we fail our call quality if we do not give appropriate safety statements to our customers that are attempting a repair that we would otherwise have to visit the Customer to fix the issue ourselves.
The second reason is to protect myself and the Phorum as well as the person that I answer.
Good luck, let us know the outcome and don't give up.
Best Regards.
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - Brian joy - 01-24-2023
You're a good guy. Thank you. Dont think for a second about being repetitive on safety. Im sure many oh "novice repair person" has arc'd themselves because of not knowing and I appreciate you looking out for everyone. Thanks again and not a chance im giving up on this ole girl.
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - TV MAN - 01-25-2023
In post 10 I recall you mentioning you had a wire break off the tube flush with the glass? If that's the case, the tube is toast. No way to put that back on and it wont work if the wire is broke off. You may not have wires out for each pin tho, only the pins that are used (the pins that have a wire coming from the socket to the chassis). Any others don't matter. I don't be a pessimist but with that brightener, I'm not holding out a lot of hope. You might get a picture, but if the tube is weak, you wont get a good bright sharp pix. However you may still be able to use it to troubleshoot the rest of the set before replacing the tube. Sometimes a tube will go "go to sleep", and wake up after it's run awhile. Is it glowing inside near the socket? If you could, shoot us a close up of the socket where it is broken so we can have a look.
If there's HV, as Mr. Fixit said, then there's hopes for the chassis. His advice to check works well if you don't a probe. You can also listen to see of the horizontal is running. Some people may not be able to hear it, but I can. Ditto on the output tube red plating, and the low voltage rectifier(s) red plating. Pull the power if you see that. It'll be a high piched sound, almost a whistle coming from the flyback/horizontal area. Also know 1B3 HV rectifiers are notorious for going to air - thus no HV. You should have in the 12-14kv range for proper HV.
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - Brian joy - 01-25-2023
Appreciate the follow up TV MAN. Yes I figured with the wire breaking off that the tube is toast and have posted on numerous sites and classifieds to hopefully find a NOS piece. I checked for high voltage last night as suggested by Mr FiXIT and yes I have a strong arc when brought near the anode connection. I guess patience needs to take over and hopefully as I continue to look ill find a replacement CRT. You all have been such a big help in working my way through this and cant thank you enough.
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - TV MAN - 01-25-2023
That's a very good sign, means your horizontal is working, good flyback, probably good yoke. Do you hear the vertical running? It'll produce a 60 cycle buzz in the yoke and output transformer. It could be off frequency so it might be faster or slower. You can turn the vertical hold control and listen for it to change speed. It it possible to get a close up of the connector on the tube itself showing the damage and possibly the broken wire? Is it lit up (yellowish orange) in the neck when on?
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - GarySP - 01-26-2023
Brian, you might want to check out this site: https://www.earlytelevision.org Their inventory lists three 21EP4 CRT's available for sale - all used. It's a start! Take care and BE HEALTHY! Gary
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - Brian joy - 01-26-2023
Awesome Gary going there now to see what I can get. Thanks for the tip!
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - MrFixr55 - 01-26-2023
Oops, sorry, Brian, I forgot to recommend the ETF Website to you, glad that Gary SP did!
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - Brian joy - 01-26-2023
No worries whatsoever! I've contacted them and awaiting a response. Cannot wait to move ahead and see where this leads me. Excited to try and put life back into the old girl!
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - MrFixr55 - 01-27-2023
While waiting for the CRT, connect the set to a VCR or the "RF" Output of your cable box to verify that you have audio. That will give you an idea as to whether your tuner, video and audio circuits work.
I expect that the CRT is not going to be cheap. in addition, it would have to be professionally packed, possibly "foamed" into a box and double boxed. In fact, you may have to drive 10 hours to central OH to get it.
I cannot stress more strongly the danger in handling one of these CRTs. Wear a face shield, eyeglasses, gloves and complete covering. Discharge the 2nd anode connection on the CRT to its outer "aquadag" covering. Have nothing in pockets that can fall out and strike the CRT. I had one break on me as a kid when it fell out of its mount on the set. There was glass everywhere. I was standing at the side of the set. If I was in front or of the set, I stood a good chance of being blinded, NO $#!^
RE: Have had this television since I was 12 what model is it? - TV MAN - 01-27-2023
I'm glad you have a lead on a tube. They should know how to pack it. I've received several in good shape packed in cardboard & foam. Main thing it to protect the neck from being snapped and the front from scratches. Yes, do handle with care and discharge before you grab on, even ground it several times. They are like a capacitor and even tho the shock wont kill anyone it can startle you and cause you to drop the tube. Then the fun begins. I've discharged a tube several times and still get a little bit of a spark if I do it again, mostly on color tubes, which operate at a higher voltage. Do be careful! You want your eyes working properly so you can enjoy that 21" black & white picture!