Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - Printable Version
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RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - Arran - 11-11-2014
A lot of Canadian built sets used a sheet of white asbestos under the chassis, I thought that a lot of U.S sets did too. It seems to have started around 1939 or so, either as a cost cutting measure or to conserve steel, but probably the prior since several manufacturers, like Westinghouse and Rogers, used steel plates under their chassis right into the 1942 model year. In any event it was there for a reason for it, maybe an electrical code requirement at minimum, and if it isn't falling apart I would leave it alone, perhaps painting it if it really worries you. There is a material that auto parts stores sell for making exhaust gaskets that looks very similar, but without using the forbidden "A" word as an ingredient, that one could use as a substitute, if it is not too thick.
Regards
Arran
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-11-2014
Most American AC/DC sets have asbestos under the chassis, but usually not AC-only sets; although Greg (NostalgiaRadioTime) found asbestos under the chassis of his 59C (AC only).
This is the first time I've seen a sheet of asbestos under a large AC-only Philco. The 39 also has a black sheet on top of the asbestos; a bit thicker than regular paper but not much.
I will spray the asbestos with shellac or clear lacquer this morning before the cold front arrives. It did not appear to be falling apart.
I have two other Canadian Philco sets; a 39-3A1ACB and a 51T. The 39-3A1 has no asbestos, but it is no longer in its original cabinet as the original was broken in pieces upon arrival; it is now in a PT-30 (same in appearance) cabinet. I will have to take a look inside the 51T and see if it has the stuff.
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-11-2014
Correction: I now recall seeing a sheet of asbestos inside a 1935 Philco 16RX chairside - in the cabinet that housed the radio chassis. I do not recall seeing the stuff in any other larger AC-only Philco.
Nasty stuff. I don't like having it around.
The inside of the 39 cabinet is now sealed with shellac. After awhile, I will glue and clamp the cabinet. Tomorrow, the chassis can go back in as it is finished.
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-11-2014
Well, as I wait for the glue to dry in the cabinet...
[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/41-722/Image00028.jpg]
I proceeded to finish work on the volume control shaft.
Here is how it looked at first.
[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/41-722/Image00029.jpg]
I cut off a portion of the shaft...
[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/41-722/Image00030.jpg]
...added a coupler, then added a length of shaft from the (incorrect) volume control that was in the radio when I bought it:
[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/41-722/Image00031.jpg]
Once the glue dries in the cabinet, I can reinstall the chassis and I'll have another one finished.
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-11-2014
One more photo:
[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/41-722/Image00034.jpg]
I really should go back in and add some spacers between chassis and cabinet; the chassis should be about 1/16 to 1/8" higher than it currently is. But it looks pretty good and sounds great.
I will probably replace the grille cloth at some point; I doubt this cloth is original.
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-11-2014
One more thing, for Arran: I looked in back of my Canadian 51T, and yes, it does appear to have a nice sheet of the bad stuff under the chassis.
I had forgotten about my Canadian 39-330AT. It has no asbestos. If it ever did, it disappeared before I acquired the set.
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - NostalgiaRadioTime - 11-12-2014
The radio turned out great!! Thanks for posting all of the photos as you progressed.
The asbestos under the chassis of my model 59C broke into about 5 pieces when I tried to remove it from the cabinet. I've since disposed of it. I will try the set, once completed, in the cabinet sans asbestos and see if it is needed, either as a height spacer or for some sort of sound or vibration cushion for the speaker. I'm thinking it will work just fine without it. I agree.. nasty stuff and I'd rather not have it around. The aforementioned RCA I was working on that also had "A" under the chassis was a 1942 model.
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - Arran - 11-12-2014
There is a great deal of hysteria about asbestos, a lot of which has been spread by civil trial lawyers and "Remediation" companies hoping to "Clean Out" someone's bank account. There are three different types of asbestos that have been put to commercial use, Blue asbestos (Crocidolite) Brown asbestos (Amosite), and White asbestos (Chrysotile). White asbestos is what you will find in radios, it was what was mined in North America and accounted for 95% of the asbestos used here, and it's the least hazardous of the three, it takes a lot of long term exposure, in large quantities, to cause health issues. As I said on the alternative forum, unless you are grinding it up and snorting it you really don't have anything to worry about, if it's falling apart, pick it up and toss it in the garbage. think of it like solder, it has lead in it, if you don't stick it in your mouth or eat it you won't get lead poisoning. Heck those 46-1201s have a mercury switch in the mechanism, heat up that mercury, and inhale the fumes, and you can die in one sitting. The thing to keep in mind is that it is a naturally occurring material, so there is always a certain amount of it in the air due to erosion, not to mention it was used in brake linings for decades. If the sheet is in good condition, and it really worries you, you can paint it with something like furnace cement or latex paint to seal it up.
Regards
Arran
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - sam - 11-12-2014
looking good ron
I have not seen that one before I like it
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - radiohenry - 11-12-2014
Ron,
I wanted to post a pic of my 39 but when I click new reply I get the response that I am not logged in or not allowed. I'm not even sure that I remember my password as I set up to be recognized when logging in.
Henry
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - radiohenry - 11-12-2014
Ron,
I also have asbestos under my chassis. Here is a picture of my grill cloth. I think it's original.
I found my password and had to log in again to be able to add the picture. Henry
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - KCMike - 11-12-2014
Good job Ron. I always appreciate one of the pros on here showing how they go about restoring a radio.
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - Arran - 11-13-2014
Ron;
That grille cloth may in fact be original, since this is a Model 39 built in Toronto it means that they did not follow everything that they did in Philadelphia 100%, as you well know. In some ways that's a good thing, like using cloth covered rather then that notorious rubber/gutta percha covered wire, and a power transformer with a proper 5 volt rectifier winding and a #80 tube rather then an 84. No doubt this was related to what Philco Products of Canada Ltd. could acquire from domestic suppliers, or it was simply the prerogative of the engineering department in Toronto, or perhaps both. It was also 1940-41, Canada entered the war in October 1939, though they did not cut off car or radio production until February or March of 1941, but that may have had something to do with what parts were chosen as well. But then again the Toronto people probably had more leeway with redesigning a set like this since intended to be a Canada only model, and it's Tropic cousins were intended to be export only models. That grille cloth looks familiar, so I may have seen in in some other sets from the late 1930s or early 40s, it may not be the same pattern of cloth the 41-722s used but it is likely from that period. The model 39, as well as several other Canada only Philco models, is one set I will need to keep a watch open for.
Regards
Arran
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - mikethedruid - 11-13-2014
I am not sure, and don't have the records handy to check, but one reason for the difference between US and Canadian wire type, rubber covered vs. cloth covered, could be a difference between UL and CSA requirements at the time. Having dealt with both, I know that CSA requirements are sometimes different and more conservative, even to this day. This might be an interesting bit of trivia for someone to investigate.
RE: Philco Canada 39 or 41-722 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-14-2014
(11-12-2014, 08:19 PM)Mike Wrote: Good job Ron. I always appreciate one of the pros on here showing how they go about restoring a radio.
Thanks! I hope that these restoration threads will be helpful/educational to someone out there. This gives newbies a chance to learn, and gives the more experienced folks a chance to laugh with me (or at me) when I make a mistake, which we all do from time to time.