Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Printable Version
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RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Ron Ramirez - 08-11-2012
Here's a look at my 19B front panel.
[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/2012-08-11_00001.jpg]
This is after two applications of CrystaLac, sanding, application of lacquer sanding sealer, sanding, then two more applications of CrystaLac (sanding in between coats), followed by scraping the surface.
A closer look:
[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/2012-08-11_00002.jpg]
Slick!
See, it does not matter that CrystaLac is clear - the grain lines are dark anyway.Later today I will begin to apply lacquer to this panel. I'll also start preparing the main body of the 19B cabinet for grain fill. I think I'll use more CrystaLac on the front of the cabinet body, and one of the other products on the top/sides.
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Ron Ramirez - 08-11-2012
Here's the front panel after toning with Perfect Brown, followed by two coats of clear:
[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/2012-08-11_00003.jpg]
[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/2012-08-11_00004.jpg]
Not bad, I think. Next, the panel needs to be wet sanded with 800 grit wet/dry paper, another coat of clear added, then the PHILCO decal and two or three final coats of clear.
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Ron Ramirez - 08-11-2012
After stopping everything to make a 50 mile trip to Lowe's in Evansville to pick up more Deft, I've wet sanded the front panel with 800 grit paper, dried it off, then gave it another coat of Deft clear. (Lowe's is the only place in my area that carries Deft.)
The panel is very smooth...I would say 95% or better of the grain is completely filled.
Tomorrow, it gets the PHILCO decal, followed by final coats of Deft.
Then, I'll have to finish getting the 19B cabinet body ready for grain fill, and repeat the process on it. Ditto the 42-761EZ cabinet.
In the interim between May and now... Radio Daze has begun to carry decals for Philco Tropic sets! Their DCL-PH-TROPIC sheet has some of the Tropic decals:
http://www.radiodaze.com/product/38006.aspx
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Bob Andersen - 08-11-2012
Lookin' good
I'll have to give CrystaLac a try someday."This is after two applications of CrystaLac, sanding, application of lacquer sanding sealer, sanding, then two more applications of CrystaLac..."
Do you think you could have gotten a smooth surface without the lacquer sanding sealer in between CrystaLac applications ?
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Ron Ramirez - 08-12-2012
Yes, and next time I'll concentrate on getting a smooth surface with Crystalac before thinking about sanding sealer. Looks like it will still take multiple applications unless I glop it on heavily.
This is why I was openly wishing for someone who has experience using this stuff to step forward with a well-illustrated tutorial showing how they achieve good results by merely applying and squeegeeing, or applying and wiping, with no need to sand. I don't believe it, quite frankly, and I won't believe it until/unless I am shown proof of these claims.
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Steve Davis - 08-12-2012
Ron, I don't believe it either, I just can't imagine not having to sand after the filler.
Steve
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Ron Ramirez - 08-12-2012
OK folks, here's the story on the other grain fill I bought...Behlens Water-Based Grain Filler.
Good news: Goes on fast, fills with one coat, dries fast, easy to remove the excess by sanding or scraping.
Bad news: The "brown" stuff was more like tan...and it dried to an off-white color!
[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/2012-08-12_00001.jpg]
This is the top of my 42-761EZ.
Off-white grain filler? I don't think so! A thorough scrubbing of the top of the 42-761EZ with acetone and steel wool removed 95% or better of that awful-looking ivory crap, fortunately. (Wear good rubber gloves when using acetone, folks, and do this outdoors with lots of fresh air!)
Steve (Davis), your oil-based Behlens isn't this light, is it? I know yours doesn't turn off-white when it dries!
I think I'll return this crap and ask for a refund. Too bad...if the color was really brown as advertised, this would be great stuff.
Meanwhile...some good news to report...I finished the front panel of the 19B today. Those new Radio Daze PH8 decals sure look good...
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Phlogiston - 08-12-2012
The Behlen Pore-O-Pac stuff is grey. Best that I can tell it is clay in an oil based solvent. I have used it. It fills very well. It must be tinted prior to use. The only problem I have had with it is, once tinted, the color transfers to the wood. A very careful sanding will resolve this, however aggressive sanding will remove the filler from the pores.
You can't use this stuff as is out of the can unless you are going to paint the surface.
Not recommended for people not accustomed to tinting paint.
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Ron Ramirez - 08-12-2012
I've just spent some time researching the Behlen water-based grain filler online, and I see that "brown" is indeed tan-ivory..."mahogany" is pink..."neutral" is white.
(I should have studied all of this before ordering. Duh!)
On one page, I found where someone says Rit dye may be mixed with CrystaLac to color it. So now my question is...can Rit dye be added to the Behlen water-based filler, and can it be dyed to the point that it is dark brown, almost black? Because if the Behlen product can't be made dark, then there is no point in my wasting my time with it, and I should send it back for a refund.
I really liked how the Behlen stuff worked, except for the awful color.
And...I still have the small jar of Timber Mate that I have yet to try. At least they mean it when they say "walnut" because it really is walnut in color.
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - codefox1 - 08-12-2012
If you're dead set on dismantling it you will want to spend an hour or two with a #5 scalpel on the veneer joint area before attempting to bang out the glue joint. I wouldn't do this unless it was a transplant, ie good sides to good front or vice versa.
Bonfires are not permited in my town, but I have wanted to start a few. Be patient.
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Steve Davis - 08-12-2012
I used to use the Behlen oil based filler in the neutral and would dye it my self. A few months ago I purchased a can of Behlen walnut tinted oil based filler. After the first use, I decided that it was too dark, so, I ordered another can of the neutral and started mixing the two. I'm still not happy with that, so I may go back to tinting the neutral myself. This is what has started me thinking about the water based filler.
Ron, If the wood has been sealed before you filled the grain, you may be able to stain the filler to darken it. I'm thinking, the sealed wood won't take the stain but the filler would. I would certainly test on a scrap piece first though.
Steve
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Ron Ramirez - 08-16-2012
Steve
I removed the ivory Behlen grain filler from my 42-760EZ with straight acetone. I managed to remove about 95% of the stuff.
Since then, I bought some dark brown Rit dye and tried mixing it with the Behlen filler. I am going to have to get another jar, because the can of Behlen filler is now completely full...and the stuff still isn't dark enough. I intend to pour out about a pint of the filler, then dye the heck out of that with the remaining Rit dye.
Meanwhile...
After repeated attempts, much aggravation, etc., I finally managed to get the 19B's front arch filled smooth. Here's what I had to do:
Sealed the cabinet with Deft sanding sealer.
Wet sanded the entire cabinet with 800 grit wet/dry paper.
Applied Crystalac to the front arch and pilasters.
Scraped with an old credit card.
Grain still showed.
Repeated.
Grain still showed.
Glopped the crap on, let dry.
Scraped off with a razor blade - this also removed the sanding sealer.
Achieved 50-60% fill.
Glopped the crap on again, and (carefully, lightly) scraped the excess with the same razor blade this time.
Let dry.
Wet sanded with 220 grit wet/dry paper.
Finally, completely filled.
Lightly sanded again with 320 grit dry paper.
Now, the front arch and pilasters will have to be sealed again since it all came off with the scraping.
Nevertheless, if the weather holds out, I might actually have this 19B finished this weekend!
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Bob Andersen - 08-17-2012
I admire your perseverance! I had the same results with the Behlen filler. Liked the way it filled, but it turned out greyish
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Phlogiston - 08-17-2012
Ron I would not do that. The dye is going to transfer to the wood. I have even had this trouble using tints made for the job. I am picky, but it gives a cloudy appearance to the grain.
Here is one that I mixed the tint for. It is walnut, but it gave it more of that English walnut red tint - which, I guess is OK. This was before the polish.
RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2012 Season - Ron Ramirez - 08-17-2012
I've already been warned about that (dye transferring to the wood), and have a contingency plan in mind...
So when you say you "mixed the tint," do you mean the grain filler you used on that cabinet, or the tinted lacquer itself? In any event, your cabinet came out nice and smooth, as they should.