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Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Printable Version

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RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Eliot Ness - 06-05-2013

Blah, blah, blah, the sky is falling, the sky is falling! I've got modern chairs where the legs are falling apart, but I've got over 200 seventy plus year old radio cabinets that are still solid and tight. Hmmm, do I want to take advice from guys who assemble and restore cabinets for a living, or a self professed internet "expert" who claims he knows a guy who tried some pre-mixed glue that failed. OK, that was an easy decision.

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Arran - 06-05-2013

I will not comment on Mr. Richmond's reputation but let's just say he is not the only one out there who does this for a living, as hard as that is for some to believe.
But let's see, if hide glue is so great how come you have to go out of your way to get it? Its just so wonderful that nobody uses it anymore except a discerning few. Here's another thought go get some natural rubber bias ply tires for your car while you are at it, and hoses, and belts too. Maybe we should also switch back to using pot metal, and make repro knobs out of Tenite plastic as well, not the improved Tenite II but Tenite I? Lead based paint, wallpaper glue made out of flour, all of that stuff was so much better before modern chemistry got in the way, everyone knows that.
If you want to use glue made from dead cows and horses like they did 100 years ago be my guest, but don't try to argue that it's the best thing on earth before you go and try it.
Regards
Arran

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Eliot Ness - 06-05-2013

Geez, I dunno, I guess for the same reason I have problems finding a lot of the stuff I like that isn't in vogue anymore. If hadn't seen the glue used in person I wouldn't have near as much interest in trying it, but I'm sure glad I have your permission to try it now. Huh, they quit making vacuum tubes too, guess we ought to toss out these old radios for solid state sets.

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Ron Ramirez - 06-05-2013

Guys, please! Let me give you both a toy cap pistol and you can meet each other at noon on Front Street, like this:

[Video: https://youtu.be/qbo6tp4UgII]

Now back to the task of repairing cabinets, after I take a shot of that Dristan. I've got a migraine already. Icon_wink

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Ron Ramirez - 06-05-2013

The other day, I was looking online for some tips on using CrystaLac. I can't find the link now, else I would post it, but I found a page where the author had his own method of applying the stuff:

Slather it on and immediately squeegee it off. Rub out with burlap, first across the grain, then with the grain.

It sounded promising, so I tried it on the front panel of my 610T cabinet.

Results: The stuff was drying before I could start wiping it down with burlap. I let it dry and then could not sand it, so I ended up scraping it off with a razor blade.

And guess what - the pores were only partially filled. And this was the second coat!

If you like CrystaLac, good luck to you. I hate CrystaLac. Icon_thumbdown

Fortunately, the good stuff arrived yesterday - Constantine's walnut wood filler in a pint can. Now excuse me, as I am on my way outside to use it on that 610T cabinet and, if I get really productive this afternoon, maybe the 38-2670B cabinet as well (which I re-stripped a few days ago).

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Ron Ramirez - 06-05-2013

And so it begins...

I applied a coat of Constantine grain filler on the 610T cabinet. I could tell right away that the stuff was working...unlike CrystaLac. Icon_thumbup

It will require a second coat. I don't know when that will get done, as it is supposed to rain here the next two days.

But at least now, progress is being made! Icon_smile

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Marsupial - 06-05-2013

Lucky you Ron.

North of the borders, getting good products for woodworking is a pain.

now... where's the pictures? I am curious to see the process, as it happens when using good products Icon_biggrin

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Arran - 06-05-2013

Does the CrystaLac small like acetone or lacquer thinner by any chance? That may explain why its so difficult to work with. In any event since the Constantine's filler works fine there's not much point in messing with something that's more frustrating to work with.
I only wish I could find proper grain filler where I am, I checked around at some paint stores a few years ago and came up empty. I have been experimenting with something called Elmer's Wood Putty, it's water based and has to be thinned out considerably to fill grain, but you can sand it. I was trying on a battery set cabinet and it seemed to work well, the cabinet was already sealed by the way, I have not tried it on raw wood yet. At one time they also used tinted plaster for grain filler so it's not that outlandish of an idea. One good thing is at least there is a local dealer that carries Mohawk products, though I'm not sure about the selection at present.
Regards
Arran

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Ron Ramirez - 06-06-2013

Well, I have to tell you, that my nose does not work very well after years of sinus problems. That said, no, the CrystaLac does not smell like either acetone or lacquer thinner. It's water based, actually.

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Ron Ramirez - 06-06-2013

OK, Mars wanted photos, so Mars shall have photos. Icon_smile

The cabinet I am concentrating on at present - a 1936 Philco 610T.

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00001-5.jpg]

Here you can see the grain, even though it has had one coat of Constantine wood filler already.

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00002-4.jpg]

I find it easier to apply the stuff straight from the can without thinning it. Here, I am pushing it into the grain by applying forward and backward pressure, against the grain, with this small putty knife.

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00003-4.jpg]

Now, I work it in, again, by going backward and forward against the grain.

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00004-2.jpg]

I let the stuff dry until it looks dull, and then begin to remove excess with a plastic scraper.

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00005-2.jpg]

Once most (not all) of the excess has been squeegeed off, I use a piece of burlap to rub the remnant into the grain as much as possible, using a circular motion.

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00006-2.jpg]

Finally, how the 610T looks after the second coat.

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00007-2.jpg]

I took the cabinet out into the direct sunlight and carefully looked it over. All grain appears to be filled. This stuff does shrink somewhat, though, so I shall see either tomorrow or this weekend, depending on whether we get any of the rain the meteorologists are predicting for this area. If the rain holds off and the grain appears to be filled, I'll be spraying lacquer this weekend on the 610T cabinet.

I had forgotten that I still need to prepare the 38-2670 cabinet for sanding sealer by giving it a light sanding first. That, also, is a job for this weekend.

Meanwhile, I applied the first coat of grain fill to most of my 42-22CL cabinet. This one is going to be a toughie, as all of the wood is open grain and its design does not lend itself well to grain filling on the front. It may end up with open pores, as my skill level is not good enough to completely fill the grain on this one, I think.

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Arran - 06-07-2013

That Crystalac sounds like the Elmers wood putty, if it's water based does water dissolve it again once' it's dried? That's one good thing about that Elmers stuff is you can clean the excess off off with warm water and a rag.
Just out of curiousity but was it recommended to seal the wood first before applying Crystalac? I was just thinking that if it went on top of raw wood then the dryness of the wood would draw the moisture out straight away.
Regards
Arran

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Ron Ramirez - 06-07-2013

Wet sanding does not budge dried CrystaLac, so I would say once the stuff is dry, it seems akin to polyurethane in its hardness. For what it's worth, I did spray seal the cabinet prior to applying CrystaLac.

CrystaLac comes with no instructions, so you are left at the mercy of what various online "experts" have to say about how to use the stuff.

No, thanks. I'm convinced Constantine filler is the way to go.

Speaking of which...I looked over the 610T this afternoon and it looked good. Lightly sanded with 320 grit to remove the last of the filler residue from the surface, and sprayed another coat of sealer. I let that dry for a little while, and then looked it over again...looks good. Icon_thumbup I declared it ready for toner. But the clouds gathered and turned gray...threatening rain...so I quit for the day. Maybe tomorrow...Medium Walnut...with either Perfect Brown or Extra Dark Walnut on the bottom trim.

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Bob Andersen - 06-07-2013

I'm glad to hear things are working out good for you Ron Icon_thumbup

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Ron Ramirez - 06-08-2013

Thanks, Bob. Icon_smile

So just a little while ago, I applied two coats of Medium Walnut toner to the 610T:

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00001-6.jpg]

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00002-5.jpg]

Nice and even. Icon_thumbup (Edit: The light spot on the side is a reflection from the table, not unevenness in the color.) And I would say the grain is easily 95% or better filled. Next comes the contrasting darker toner on the bottom trim, after the Medium Walnut has a chance to dry some more, plus dark lacquer on the inside edges of the speaker grille. Then a couple coats of clear, wet sanding, a couple more coats of clear, the PHILCO decal, then a couple final coats of clear. This 610T is well on its way to completion.

On my way back outside to put more grain filler in the 42-22CL, and to sand down and seal the 38-2670 again followed by its first coat of grain filler...

RE: Ron's Cabinet Work for the 2013 Season - Ron Ramirez - 06-08-2013

In all, I would say this was a very productive day on the cabinet refinishing jobs.

I gave the 42-22CL another coat of Constantine grain fill. Here's how it looks now:

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00005-3.jpg]

Notice how the really bad scratches that were on the right side of the cabinet front are barely visible now. Using a wet rag and a hot iron (thanks for the tip, Arran), I was able to steam out the worst of the scratches. Icon_thumbup

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00006-3.jpg]

I also sanded down the 38-2670 cabinet, spray sealed it, and let it bake in the sun most of the afternoon. I then set it in the shade to cool off. Afterwards, I started filling grain on it.

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00003-5.jpg]

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/Phorum_Stuff/Image00004-3.jpg]

I only managed to get one coat on the top and front. I still have to give both sides the first coat of grain filler.

Tomorrow, my plans are to lightly sand, reseal and then tone the 42-22CL cabinet. I also hope to get the 610T masked off to shoot some Extra Dark Walnut toner on its lower trim pieces. And, depending on the weather, perhaps I will get some more grain filler applied to the 38-2670.

I now feel pretty confident in my grain filling technique (finally!). For me, it takes fresh Constantine grain fill, applied as I have shown and described in a previous post, removing excess with a plastic scraper, then rubbing the remaining excess into the grain with burlap. And now that I've found my groove, so to speak, I'll just keep filling grain in this fashion on the remainder of the cabinets I want to do this summer, plus any cabinets I refinish in the future.