Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - Printable Version
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RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-12-2014
Total waste of time.
After the paint dried, I sprayed on the Super 77 adhesive. I sprinkled, then poured, the flocking onto the metal, using a plastic pan to catch the excess in order to reclaim it for reuse later, and all was well...until the palm of my hand accidentally touched the metal right where it would show...
So I grabbed a bottle of Goof-Off and started rubbing the metal. I hadn't used Goof-Off since last year, and I quickly remembered from the smell that this stuff is basically straight acetone! So I moved to the garage, with door open, 34 degrees outside...and rubbed all flocking residue, spray adhesive, paint, etc. off the metal.
I shall now have to completely repeat the process.
Man, I hate it when a day is wasted like this.
Perhaps I'll try again sometime over the weekend.
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - NostalgiaRadioTime - 11-12-2014
Sorry to hear you had bad luck with this, Ron. My only suggestion would be to start from bare metal and don't spray paint it first. I can't say for sure if painting affects how the glue adheres, as I've always just started with bare metal. Then apply a nice even coat of Super 77 and let it 'cure' for a few minutes before pouring the flocking material liberally over the glued area you want flocked. It's important...as you found out... to NOT touch the flocked area before the glue dries. Don't be alarmed if there are 'high' spots or the flocking is uneven. As long as everything you want flocked is covered with flocking material you're good to go. You can always shake off the excess and/or lightly wipe over it with a finger once the glue is dry.
I've flocked two turntables this way... a 47-1230 and a 49-1401. Both came out decent. The nice thing (if you can call it nice) is that you can reuse all of the excess flocking that shakes off or misses the item. I used a box when flocking...one with shorter sides...and placed the (in my case) turntable platters in the box (after spray gluing on a separate piece of flat cardboard) to shake the flocking material over it and collect the excess.
Good luck...don't get discouraged. You won't ruin anything if it doesn't turn out right. You can always remove the flocking. We use that Super 77 adhesive spray where I work to glue felt onto aluminum chucks that hold cookware pieces to sand the insides and buff finish the outsides. It's a strong glue... some chucks I felted back in 2005 still have their felt strongly adhered to them, despite the nearly 10 years of constant use. 3M makes a spray glue remover in a black can with blue lettering. Can't remember the part number offhand but it works great to remove the glue. Smells like an orange.
I remember the dial back plate on my 48-475 was also flocked and in poor condition. I didn't want to remove the whole thing to reflock it...mainly because I am not a big fan of dial string re-stringing and this one was a doozy...so I scraped off the old flocking, masked it off, and sprayed it with a dark brown primer. The matte finish looked decent, and with the dial glass on, it was nearly impossible to tell it wasn't flocked. That might be another alternative for you.
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-12-2014
Greg
Thanks. I actually sanded the metal back to bare metal again, wiped it down to make sure it was dry and free from dust, masked it off and painted it again a few hours before you posted.
I thought you had painted your platter as well as flocked it. You wrote:
NostalgiaRadioTime Wrote:Here's how the finished phonograph looks after repainting and reflocking:
I must have misunderstood - I guess you meant "repainting" (the phonograph itself) and "reflocking" (the platter).
Oh well, what's done is done; I know the flocking fibers will stick to the painted metal by my previous attempt.
I'm not going to try the flocking again until tomorrow or the next day. I had considered flocking without painting first, but I thought that just in case there might be an area where I failed to spray enough glue on...I didn't want to take any chances, especially since I really didn't know what I was doing.
The paint did not affect the finished product; my clumsiness in allowing the palm of my hand to come into contact with the wet glue and flocking is what ruined things the first time around. The back plate actually looked pretty good until I accidentally touched it.
I used a plastic pan to catch excess flocking fibers, and I was able to reclaim about 99% of what fell into the pan without sticking to the metal. I bought enough flocking fibers to reflock perhaps half a dozen or more back plates. I figure that if I can do this successfully, I may have to do others in the future.
Let me ask you something, while I have your attention. How long will it take for the glue and fibers to dry enough to handle safely? Naturally I do not expect it to dry immediately...I've used Super 77 on enough grill cloth to know that...I am just curious. I would like to know if I should set this aside for a week or so once I successfully apply the stuff, two weeks, or ???
I don't mind restringing the dial cords (plural - one for the dial, one to move the band indicator lamp up and down). I still have to install a new transformer in this set...when I can...I think I will find restringing the dial cords to be easier than installing a new transformer, possibly drilling another hole or three to get it installed, etc. As I mentioned before, the back plate is identical to that on my 41-246, and the dial stringing is the same for both sets. In case I run into problems restringing the cords, I can study the 41-246 and figure it all out.
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - NostalgiaRadioTime - 11-12-2014
Oops, you're right, when I said "after painting and reflocking" I meant painting the actual phonograph and reflocking just the platter. Sorry for the confusion. But good to know painting didn't affect how the glue adheres. Actually that might not be a bad idea... painting the back plate a shade of brown as close to the flocking material BEFORE flocking, in the event there may be a bald spot after the flocking is applied.
I usually let them sit 24 hours after reflocking. That's plenty of time for the glue to set and dry. At least in my limited experience (I'm by no means a flocking expert). Another tip... to remove the old flocking on the turntables, I used the wire brush wheel on my pedestal grinder. Got that old stuff off in short order!
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - Arran - 11-13-2014
Ron;
When I said that Hammond underrated their transformers I was thinking of the current load specs, in that they can handle more current then what they were rated for. I don't know if the new Hammonds are different then the old ones, but I've had a radio or two that had an old Hammond replacement transformer, one with wrinkle paint and a brass data plate, and they did not seem to run abnormally warm.
I've never actually tried reflocking something, the last dial plate that was in bad shape like that I restored by gluing black velvet/velour fabric to the backing plate. Some of those plates had the metal flocked directly, but others seem to have had a flocked piece of paper glued to them.
Regards
Arran
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-13-2014
The second time's the charm...maybe...(keeping my fingers crossed)
[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/42-720/Image00027.jpg]
Yes, I sprayed on the Super 77 again a little while ago, then (very carefully) brought the back plate in and placed it in the plastic pan with a paper towel underneath it. I then dumped some flocking fibers over it. I carefully picked it up and gently shook it...just a little bit...and then scooped up some of the loose fibers and sprinkled them over the plate again. After turning it sideways to just let the heavy excess fall off, I stopped while I was ahead and took the photo. It looks like the flocking fibers completely covered the plate as they were supposed to.
I've set it in the house garage to leave it alone for a day or two. It's rather cold in there, but I didn't want the cats to get into the pan, and they do not have access to the house garage.
I'll probably leave it alone until Saturday, and then I'll bring it in. I will wait and reclaim the unused fibers at that time.
So, Greg...you say I can lightly wipe off the back plate once the glue is dry with a fingertip? As you see in the photo, it looks lumpy right now, but is 100% covered. I hope it turns out smooth (without a "lumpy" appearance) when it is dry...
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-13-2014
Arran - I guess when you wrote "underrated" my brain (for whatever reason) registered it as "overrated". I must be getting old.
But seriously, I think it was because I had read online where someone had claimed that the Hammonds ran warm and may be over-rated.So you think the 270DX will do as a replacement (assuming changing the rectifier tube socket wiring to accept a 5Y3GT)?
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - morzh - 11-13-2014
It is a mind trick where "overrated" might be heard as "overspecified" whereas it in fact means the opposite, same goes for "underrated".
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - PhilcoMike - 11-13-2014
Never have I seen so many "flocking experts" in one place..... lol
Great job Ron!
Mike
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - morzh - 11-13-2014
Birds of a feather flock together
or at least virtually.
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-13-2014
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - NostalgiaRadioTime - 11-13-2014
Just like the movie... Meet the Flockers!Looks good, Ron. Tomorrow it should be fully cured and you can do a little "finger shaving"...gently rubbing over it to smooth out the lumps. The high spots should just break right off.
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-13-2014
I think I will leave it alone until Saturday; I do not wish to press my luck.
I know this color flocking is not quite as dark as the Phactory Phlocking, but I like it; I think if it turns out OK, that it will look good behind a glass dial scale. In any event, it will look much better than the badly worn, blackened look it had before.
And I purchased the darkest brown that I could find.
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-14-2014
(11-13-2014, 04:15 PM)morzh Wrote: It is a mind trick where "overrated" might be heard as "overspecified" whereas it in fact means the opposite, same goes for "underrated".
Yup, good point. So maybe I'm not crazy after all.
Actually, any adult with a house full of old radios must be a little crazy, right?
RE: Next case - Odd Philco 42-720 Tropic - Ron Ramirez - 11-14-2014
I forgot to mention...with many thanks to Michael Feldt, I now have a larger scan of his 43-720 dial scale...which is identical to the broken scale in my 42-720. So now all I need to do is see about getting a repro scale made.