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Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Printable Version

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RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 10-22-2013

Well, I just stayed up late and read more about sanding sealer until I thoroughly confused myself. Some people swear by it, others don't use it at all. Most of the things I read from people who use it say you should lay on 1 or 2 coats pretty thick and then sand it back down to the wood, or very close to the wood. I applied 2 heavy coats over the entire cabinet but only lightly sanded and then went over the entire cabinet with #000 steeel wool. It is as smooth as glass but is sounds like I shouldn't have done that. What I will probably do is use 320 again and sand the entire cabinet back down very close to the wood, if not right back down to the wood. This should still leave the grain filler and sanding sealer inside the grain. The tops and sides got 2 coats of grain filler and was smooth before I applied the sanding sealer. The front still has some areas that show the grain, even after the sanding sealer. After sanding down I will hit the front with 1-2 coats of grain filler, lightly sand when dry, and then start applying the toners. But before I do that I'd like to hear some feedback.

I'm tired now and I have a headache.

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 10-23-2013

I sanded off the sanding sealer on the front of the cabinet last night:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156399&g2_serialNumber=2]

I'm pretty happy with the grain filling and smothness of the top, sides, and columns but I think I have too much sanding sealer on it. My plan is to lightly sand those areas down a bit to remove some of the sanding sealer. Not quite all the way down to the wood, but fairly close. As a test I started at the top of the left column:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156402&g2_serialNumber=2]

And for getting into the corners and nooks and crannies I have been using shish kabob sticks. They work great! The one in the picture is a bit worn so I'll need to start using a new one.

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156405&g2_serialNumber=2]

Also, when I bought my supplies at the Mohawk distributor they sold padded 320 grit sandpaper. They were on a reel and you can just break along the perforations and get the number of pads you need. Only $0.45 a sheet! I've found that these work very well. The one in the picture I cut in half so I could get into smaller areas.

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156408&g2_serialNumber=2]

The plan tonight is to apply grain filler to the front only. If it needs another coat I'll do that tomorrow.

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - KCMike - 10-24-2013

I have been following your restoration thread and all the work you've put into the cabinet. The problems and solutions have been an excellent learning process for me. You have made great headway. I look foward to your final results.

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 10-24-2013

Thanks Mike. I didn't get a chance to use the grain filler on the front last night. Got home from work late and was too tired. I'll be applying it tonight.

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 10-25-2013

I applied the first coat of grain filler to the front last night. Here is a photo after applying it:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156417&g2_serialNumber=2]

I followed the directions on the can and waited until it dried to a dull haze. This took about 8-10 minutes. I then lightly scraped off the excess with a plastic putty knife at a 45 degree angle to the grain, per the instructions:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156420&g2_serialNumber=2]

I then let it sit for about 10 minutes and then wiped the front with burlap in a small circular motion. Here it is after the wipe down:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156423&g2_serialNumber=2]

When I applied the grain filler I painted it on in the direction of the grain. Then I followed Eddie’s advice of then using my fingers (with rubber gloves) to rub the filler into the grain. I rubbed in the direction of the grain. When I compare that to how I applied it to the sides and top (using just a brush) I did notice a big difference. After just one application to the front 99% of the grain is filled. My plan tonight is to apply one more coat of grain filler to the front, just to make sure it is 100% filled. I will follow the same technique I just outlined.

I’ll need some advice on what to do after it dries overnight. I’ve seen videos on YouTube where you lightly sand after the grain filler is cured. I’ve also read on another forum that you should rub it down lightly with #0000 steel wool. What is the preferred technique? Right now I’m leaning towards the steel wool approach. I checked the cabinet this morning after everything dried from last night. It looks great and is nice and smooth but it has a “muddy” appearance. I’m hoping the steel wool will remove it.

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Jamie - 10-25-2013

I've heard and seen both techniques too. My thoughts on that are to consider that the grain filler is always going to be very soft in comparison to the wood. You can let a small bit of grain filler dry for a week, and it will easily crumble between your fingers. So think about whats going to happen if you sand or steel wool after the filler dries. I just buff it very firmly with the burlap cloth, until the cabinet is almost shiny, then spray toner. But that is my technique, you gotta decide what you want to do.

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 10-25-2013

I did the burlap cloth thing after the grain filler flashed off, but not since then. Still left a "muddy" look. Now that it is fully dry I'll try it with a clean piece of burlap and see how it looks. If it still looks muddy I'll hit it with steel wool. I just went down to Lowe's at lunch and picked up some #0000 steel wool. I don't think I'll try sand paper.

Thanks!

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 10-29-2013

Once the second coat of grain filler was applied to the front I scraped off the excess with the plastic putty knife then wiped it down with burlap. I then let it dry overnight. It still had a pretty muddy appearance. So I went ahead and wiped it down (with the grain) using #0000 steel wool. It made things smoother but it still had the muddy appearance so I decided to lightly sand the front again with 320 grit sandpaper. I just sanded enough to remove the muddiness and make it a bit lighter. Once done everything was nice and smooth. The grain filler stayed in place and was not removed by the sanding. I then went back over the areas where the grain filler got into the holes for the escutcheon, controls, and the sides of the grill. Next time I use grain filler I’ll make sure to mask these areas. Getting excess grain filler from these areas was a real pain. I also went over the sides and top again with 320. As I stated above, I think I used a little too much sanding sealer in those areas. The sanding sealer still remains, just not so heavy as it was before. The front panel does not have any sanding sealer at all.

At this point I would say the cabinet is ready for the first coats of clear. My plan now is to do a light mist coat on the entire cabinet followed by a wet coat. Once dry I plan on taping off the sides, top, and trim and then hitting the front with medium brown. I would have done that yesterday but it was overcast and rainy. It was a bit overcast today too but tomorrow is supposed to be clear and dry. I’ll post some pictures when I’m done.

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - TimC - 10-29-2013

Hi Geoff,

I usually try to avoid using tape on newly sprayed surfaces.
Normally I mask off the sides/top/trim, then spray toner on the front. Then spray multiple coats of clear (starting with mist coat) on the entire cabinet.

In a long-winded way I was wondering why clear-coat under the front panel before toning it?


Tim

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 10-29-2013

It was something I read on the other forum. Someone was refinishing a Philco 90 and a very long thread began surrounding the refinishing process. The main person giving the advice said that you should put a clear coat down first so you can see where additional toning may be needed. And who knows, maybe after the first coats of clear I may be happy with the color and forego the medium brown walnut toning lacquer.

I quote:

"When you are satisfied with it, spray the entire cabinet with clear. Light coat first, wait 15 mins then a nice wet coat. Overlap your strokes, don't stop the can and control the urge to "point and shoot". Post a pic when done. Can't wait to see it. Before you do...what is the humidity there?

We are not skipping toner. Will come after these coats of clear. With the clear on the cabinet you will be able to really see what the cabinet looks like and WILL look like in the end. Having the clear on when you apply the toner give you a color and tone to reference to. Also if any corrections need to be done to the cabinet, is it easy before the toner. "

The Philco 90 they were working on came out beautifully. Here is the thread:

http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=220363

Also, in Post #30 Steve Davis wrote:

"Geoff, I do recommend that you do use clear lacquer before toner. I would spray about three coats of clear and sand. The idea is to have a smooth surface before you before you begin spraying the toner because you must not sand the toner. If you sand the toner, you will have an uneven color. After the toner, apply your decal and clear coat."

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - TimC - 10-29-2013

Got it. I wonder if it gives it more durability or affects the "depth" of the grain?
So many different ways...

Thanks
Tim

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 11-04-2013

So I filled in the last remaining imperfections with product I found at the local Mohawk distributor:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156378&g2_serialNumber=2]

It is an acrylic based gloss lacquer that you brush on for spot repairs. I let it dry overnight and on Friday night I started sanding it down to be level with the cabinet. I started with 220, then 320, and finally 800. Here it is after it dried:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156508&g2_serialNumber=2]

Here it is after sanding:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156511&g2_serialNumber=2]

Once it was smooth with the surrounding areas I went ahead and put a mist coat of Deft gloss lacquer on. Here it is after the first coat:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156514&g2_serialNumber=2]

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156517&g2_serialNumber=2]

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156520&g2_serialNumber=2]

After letting the first coat dry for 20 minutes I hit it with a wet coat and then let it dry overnight. Here it is after the wet coat:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156523&g2_serialNumber=2]

Upon examination the next morning I found that the areas where I sanded the acrylic lacquer I used for filling looked a bit dull when compared to the rest of the cabinet:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156526&g2_serialNumber=2]

I then went over those areas with #0000 steel wool and the sheen matched the surrounding areas. However, the sanding I had done to level the acrylic had opened up the grain as can be seen in the previous photo. My plan now is to spot grain fill these areas and once dry, hit it with #0000 steel wool again.

I also encountered two minor runs. I got a bit heavy handed with the wet coat. As you can see in the pictures I have the cabinet on a lazy susan which makes it easy to spin the cabinet around. The small areas where it ran were when the cabinet was laying on its back. They were on the top front left edge running towards the back and on the left shoulder. I tried to take some pictures but they were so minor the camera could not pick them up. I hit those areas lightly with 220, followed by 320 and 800 and finally #0000 steel wool. They area completely gone now and the sheen matches the surrounding area.

Once the grin filler dries I was wondering if I should hit the cabinet with one more wet coat of clear or just proceed to the Extra Dark Walnut. Or maybe just spot spray those areas with clear. Any advice?

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 11-06-2013

I spot grain filled the areas I mentioned above last night. Tonight I lightly sanded the top, sides, and front with 320. Then cleaned it all off with a tack cloth and then sprayed one wet coat of clear gloss over the entire cabinet. The extra grain filler did its job and it looks a lot better now!

Tomorrow night I plan on taping off the top, sides, and columns and then applying Medium Brown to the front. I'll post some pictures after I get that done.

Anyone have any tape recommendations? I have both the blue and green tape. The green tape seems to stick better than the blue but I painted the entire interior of my house with blue and had very little issues. I thought I read somewhere a long time ago that the green was preferred for lacquer.

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Steve Davis - 11-06-2013

Go with the green, don't even think about using the blue tape. I always just use tan tape but, I only buy 3M brand.

Steve

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - TimC - 11-06-2013

I bought/tried the green tape. Not sure of the brand but it came from Home Depot. It left adhesive when I pulled it off. I have since stuck (no pun) with blue with no issues.
Not sure if color is indicative of anything really.
Name brand stuff is key. No dollar store tape.