The PHILCO Phorum
Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Printable Version

+- The PHILCO Phorum (https://philcoradio.com/phorum)
+-- Forum: Philco Radio Discussions (https://philcoradio.com/phorum/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Philco Cabinet Restoration (https://philcoradio.com/phorum/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles (/showthread.php?tid=7487)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Bob Andersen - 11-07-2013

I've had nothing but problems with blue tape. It seems the tape adhesive reacts with the lacquer solvent fumes and fuses with it. No problems with green tape from Home Depot or Menards.

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 11-07-2013

The difference I have seen between the blue and the green tape has to do with the tackiness. The green tape is stickier and adheres better to what you are applying it to. Depends upon what you are trying to mask off though. For example, I painted the entire interior of my house using the blue tape and swear by it. I had read somewhere that the green is for lacquer (and even glass).

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 11-07-2013

I taped off the top, sides, and columns last night. I ended up using the green tape around the edges and blue tape on the newspaper. Here is a photo after taping everything off:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156545&g2_serialNumber=2]

I then laid the cabinet on its back, applied two coats of Mohawk Medium Brown (M100-0207) about 20 minutes apart, and let it dry overnight. I sprayed the first coat in a top to bottom direction, at a slight angle, overlapping each pass. I then rotated the cabinet 180 degrees and applied in a bottom to top direction, overlapping each pass. This morning I removed the tape. I did not see any tape residue so maybe I got lucky. Here is a photo taken in the same location as the one above:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156548&g2_serialNumber=2]

Here it is on the kitchen counter with no flash:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156551&g2_serialNumber=2]

Here it is on the kitchen counter with the flash on:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156563&g2_serialNumber=2]

Here it is back in the garage with the flash on:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156554&g2_serialNumber=2]

And without the flash:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156557&g2_serialNumber=2]

It turned out to be a bit darker than I had expected. Under high light conditions it looks pretty good but in lower light conditions it looks pretty dark. Oh well, it is what it is. I’m happy enough with it that I don’t think it warrants a strip of the front and trying a lighter color brown.

The only problem I see with the finish is a small “goober” that got stuck in the finish on the lower front. Here is a close-up:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156560&g2_serialNumber=2]

What should I do to try and get rid of this?

Next step will be to mask the front and spray the top, sides, columns, and rear arch support with Mohawk Extra Dark Walnut (M101-0209).

Should I spray a coat of clear over the front and let it dry prior to masking it off? I’ve seen this done before in other restoration examples but I’m not sure if it is really needed.

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Arran - 11-07-2013

Was it Mohawk medium brown or medium walnut toner that you used because it does look a little dark? However you may be able to fix that by buffing it out with 0000 steel wool.
Regards
Arran

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 11-08-2013

I used Mohawk Ultra Classic Toner, Medium Brown Walnut, #M100-0207. This is the dye based toner.

When buffing with #0000 steel wool, how much pressure should you apply? Soft, medium, hard?

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Arran - 11-08-2013

I would apply soft to medium pressure, too much may wear it down to the wood again, the trick is to buff it out evenly.
Regards
Arran

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 11-08-2013

I have 2 light coats of clear and two coats of the medium brown walnut on top of it on the front. Should I use the steel wool with the grain or does it matter with these coats already on? Once the top and sides are done I plan on hitting the entire cabinet with several coats of clear.

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 11-08-2013

I taped off the front and back last night:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156572&g2_serialNumber=2]

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156575&g2_serialNumber=2]

Then I went ahead and applied the Extra Dark Walnut (Mohawk #M101-0209). Here are some pictures after the first coat:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156578&g2_serialNumber=2]

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156581&g2_serialNumber=2]

I’m not too crazy about the spray nozzle that comes standard with Mohawk. I like the one that comes standard from Deft. It is an adjustable fan pattern that gives great coverage. The standard Mohawk nozzle produces a round pattern and it took some time to get used to (all while hoping I didn’t cause any runs). Mohawk makes a fan nozzle that you can buy but my distributor was out so I had them order me some.

For the first coat I had the cabinet laying on its back. For the second coat I had it standing up. That way I was able to have a criss-cross pattern to help with coverage. I ended up applying 3 coats before the can started to get low. I didn’t think there was enough to squeeze out another coat and I didn’t want the lacquer to start spitting from the nozzle so I stopped and let it dry overnight. Here are some photos I took this morning.

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156584&g2_serialNumber=2]

No flash:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156587&g2_serialNumber=2]

Flash on:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156590&g2_serialNumber=2]

There are still some areas that need more color. Especially the columns. It ill need at least one more coat, possibly two.

I took a drive down to my local Mohawk distributor at lunch today to buy some more Extra Dark Walnut and wouldn’t you know it, they were all out! They told me they will get their next shipment on Tuesday so it looks I’m on hold until then.

I’m thinking about removing the tape and going over the entire cabinet with #0000 steel wool. I’d like to smooth things out a bit and see if there are any imperfections that need attention. Does this sound like a good idea or should I hold off until the Extra Dark Walnut comes in?

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 11-11-2013

I didn’t get a whole lot done on the cabinet over the weekend. Too many things on the honey-do list. I went ahead and removed the tape and newspaper and here is what I have. These were taken in the kitchen when it was dark outside.

With Flash:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156617&g2_serialNumber=2]

No Flash:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156620&g2_serialNumber=2]

With Flash:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156623&g2_serialNumber=2]

No Flash:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156626&g2_serialNumber=2]

Here is a set of photos I took in the morning when there was good lighting from the sun inside the room:

With Flash:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156629&g2_serialNumber=2]

No Flash:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156632&g2_serialNumber=2]

In general, I would say that the cabinet mostly resembles the ones that were taken without a flash in the kitchen. The front came out MUCH darker than I had expected and I’m not too happy with it. Aaron suggested hitting the front with #0000 steel wool as this may lighten it a bit. I’ll give this a try but if I am not happy with the results I’m going to strip the front and use a different color.

I’ve got a physical copy of the Mohawk color chart that I got from the distributor and was thinking about Perfect Brown (M100-0249) or Universal Walnut (M100-7021). Does anyone have any photos of radios they have refinished using either of these two colors? If so, please post them so I can get an idea of what they look like.

On a good note, I’m happy with the color of the top and sides. These areas still require another coat or two since there are areas that aren’t completely covered. I talked about that in my post above. You can’t see those areas in the above photos but they are there.

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Bob Andersen - 11-12-2013

Perfect Brown has more red in it. Universal Walnut is grey like raw walnut. Medium Brown Walnut is definitely the right color IMHO. Try using one light coat if you think it's too dark.
Here's my 643 I refinished using MBW.
[Image: http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6130/6043921917_6eb831a747.jpg]

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 11-13-2013

Bob Andersen Wrote:Perfect Brown has more red in it.

Hi Bob,

I found an example of a restoration on a Philco 650 on the other forum where the poster said the opposite:

http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=91790

That's what drives me crazy about this hobby sometimes. So many different opinions, even on the same type of cabinet.

The original poster said he originally used Medium Brown Walnut on the front as well (but his didn't turn out quite as dark as mine did). He said he applied a very light coat. I put a couple of what I would call "medium" coats on mine. Maybe I used too many coats and they were not thin enough. In the end the poster stripped the front because he thought it was too reddish and used Perfect Brown instead. I think mine is a little too red as well. I tried hitting the front with #0000 steel wool in hopes that it would lighten it a bit but it didn't seem to help. I'm going to tape it up and strip the front tonight. I'll then try Perfect Brown. If I think that Medium Brown Walnut looked better, then I'll strip off the Perfect Brown and put it back on again. No big deal. This is the first cabinet I have ever refinished so it is a learning experience. And I want to take the time to do it right. The 650 in the link above is the look I'd like to achieve, but maybe not with such a glossy finish.

By the way, I love the videos you post on YouTube. I saw the one you did for your 643. I've got a Predicta Pedestal that I'll start sometime next year and have learned a lot from your TV restoration videos. Keep up the great work!

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Bob Andersen - 11-13-2013

You'd need to rub with the steel wool enough to remove some of the toner. Very difficult to get an even color - especially around the edges. So I'd strip it. Just do one light pass with the toner. A little goes a long way.

I used Perfect Brown on the top of my 15DX. It's definitely more red than MBW. You can see the difference between the new and old finish on the trim surrounding the top surface. I wish I had gone with MBW but it's too much work to start over now.
[Image: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3077/5850755304_5055d66e5d.jpg]

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 11-13-2013

Last night I taped off the top, sides, and bottom and stripped the Medium Brown Walnut off the front. I used straight lacquer thinner and paper towels. It came off very easily and the grain filler stayed in the pores. Unfortunately, after removing the tape there were some areas where the lacquer thinner leaked by and came in contact with the Extra Dark Walnut areas. I half expected this to happen. The areas were on the right column and you can see them in the pictures below. I lightly sanded the areas with 320 followed by #0000 steel wool in an attempt level the areas. I’m going to try and go back and see if I can touch up these areas with the Extra Dark Walnut. If it works then great, if not then I’ll do a total re-strip. Oh, well. Like I said, this is a learning experience for me.

But first I wanted to see what the Perfect Brown would look like on the front. I didn’t bother taping anything off and went over the front with one light coat. Just enough to barely get a wet look. After it dried I overnight I took these pictures…

Flash On:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156653&g2_serialNumber=2]

Flash Off:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156656&g2_serialNumber=2]

Flash On:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156659&g2_serialNumber=2]

Flash Off:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156662&g2_serialNumber=2]

For comparison, here is Medium Brown Walnut:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156632&g2_serialNumber=2]

Here is a link to a side-by-side:

http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156664&g2_serialNumber=1

Here is a link with the Medium Brown Walnut on the left, the original photo of the cabinet prior to refinishing in the middle, and Perfect Brown on the right:

http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=156667&g2_serialNumber=1

Call me crazy but I thought the Medium Brown Walnut looked more red than Perfect Brown. Ughh. Who knows, maybe I'm going color blind from sniffing too many lacquer fumes :-).

So lets get some feedback. Which one looks better???

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - Geoff - 11-15-2013

I tried to feather in the spots where the lacquer thinner seeped through the tape with Extra Dark Walnut but it didn't look right. I plan on fully stripping the cabinet tonight. Even though it may not be needed I'll follow that up with grain filling. I'll hopefully be in a position to put down the first couple of clear coats this weekend. I ordered some of the fan nozzle tips and will wait until they come in before spraying any toner. I did not really like the ones that come standard from Mohawk.

I won't be posting anymore photos until all the toners have been reapplied.

- Geoff

RE: Philco 640 Cabinet Refinishing Chronicles - KCMike - 11-15-2013

Geoff, I'll be looking foward to your pics after the redo. You have put a lot of work into that cabinet. I hope it comes out the way you want it this time.