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HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - Printable Version

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HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - Ron Ramirez - 12-23-2014

HELP!!!

I managed to break one of the grillebars of the chrome grille which is mounted in front of the grille cloth in my Philco Tropic 41-758EZ.

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/41-758EZ/Image00014.jpg]

I have been trying to glue it together with J-B Weld, but it is not holding. It appears that 99% of the J-B Weld is squeezed out when the pieces are put together, leaving basically nothing to hold the pieces together.

Don't ask me to go find a junk set. Philco Tropic sets are about as rare as hen's teeth. So that makes this grille basically a one of a kind item.

Here is what it would look like when assembled:

[Image: http://philcoradio.com/gallery2/images/1941a%20-%201941%20(June%201940)/1941a.bd%20-%20Model%2041-758T/image_00.jpg]

It appears to be cast aluminum, chrome plated. It isn't pot metal. I think if it were pot metal, J-B Weld would probably do a better job of holding the pieces together.

I need advice on how to repair it, or how/where it can be repaired.

Thanks.

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - KCMike - 12-23-2014

Ron have you thought about trying super glue? Maybe just on one piece. If it doesn't work you can clean it off and try something else.

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - Eliot Ness - 12-23-2014

You might need to find a thin piece of material to use as a backing plate to glue all the pieces to and then glue to the rest of the grille. If it is thin enough and trimmed smaller than the grille bar it should not be very noticeable.

A last ditch alternative might be trying to find something to replace that bar with. I'm thinking you find a flat piece of chrome about the same thickness and cut it to shape. The trick is finding a flat piece of chrome that same thickness that will match the patina of the original grill.

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - sam - 12-23-2014

ron
last resort  would be to make a mold and make from plastic and have it chromed
kirks input would be best since he made some grills
sam

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - NostalgiaRadioTime - 12-23-2014

+1 what John suggested.

Find some thin shim stock (most hardware stores have it...like Ace or Fleet Farm... sometimes in brass)

Cut it to the width / length of the grille bar with a tin snips or good strong scissors (if the shim stock is thin enough) and attach all of the pieces to that. Will it work? Not sure, but that's what I would try if it were my grille bar.

Good luck! It looks like a great set. I'm enjoying following along with your progress.

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - Ron Ramirez - 12-23-2014

Thank you, John (Eliot), Sam, and Greg - great suggestions all. After Christmas is over, I'll look for something thin to use as backing material.

In my online research this morning, I discovered that there is a two-part epoxy similar to J-B Weld, made for aluminum - Alum-Bond. Maybe some of that stuff, together with some sort of backing to give the broken joints extra strength, will do the trick? I think if I had not tried to remove the excess J-B, it would have held...but for how long? I agree that reinforcing the glued joints is necessary; I just wasn't sure how to go about it.

And Sam, I may still want to make a mold and make a plastic duplicate, after I get the original back together, just in case Icon_eek

The radio looks pretty sad right now with just one center grillebar:

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/41-758EZ/Image00015.jpg]

Now that the cloth is in the cabinet, I see that I didn't get the cloth completely straight. Icon_rolleyes But it's straighter than that shown in the factory Philco illustration above, so it will do.

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - morzh - 12-23-2014

If it broke this easily, making a mold off of it might fragment it further as you have to press it in the mold resin, I would exercise some caution with it.

I like John's idea, if the backing is thin it will not be noticeable, and the cracks you may try to fill and polish.

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - Arran - 12-24-2014

 The grille was very likely made out of pot metal, sort of an aluminum and zinc alloy, so there would be two approaches to repairing this grille. The first would be to take the pieces to a plating shop, and have them stripped, then copper plated, you could then attempt to solder the pieces back together, but you will need to grind the pot metal back to make room for the solder and or add a strip of copper or brass to hold it together from the back side. The second option would be to make a new grille bar, out of brass, have the rest of the grille stripped, copper plated, and then solder the new bar onto the rest, then copper plated again, then nickel, and then chrome. The third option would be to make a completely new grille out of brass, steel, or what have you, and then have it copper, then nickel, then chrome plated. 
Regards
Arran

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - GarySP - 12-24-2014

Ron, a suggestion for the backing strip.  Pull the metal edge out of an old wooden ruler if you can find one.  Very narrow for a backing strip, but rigid enough to hold in place.  Just a thought...   Take care, Gary

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - OldRestorer - 12-24-2014

Hey Ron,
It looks easy enough to replicate but of course you would need to repair it prior to making the mold. If someone here has one they are willing to part with for a while, I will make a copy of it. Not sure when I will have the time but I suppose I could try to do it during the night. As for the repair, With such a thin piece of metal, it will be hard to have a buildup thick enough on both sides to hold it without it being very visible. There are products for this like in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh5W0xbZ9es

Assuming it is not pot metal I would use the JB weld or even that "as seen on TV" putty.
Loctite 81512 2 Oz Cylinder Epoxy Repair Putty Stick

All in all with such a thin part you may just try the product above or what you have on hand with the ruler metal attached for double strength.

Kirk

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - jerryhawthorne - 12-24-2014

Replicate? No, Ron go with the idea of a stiffing piece glued to the back. Just a matter of finding an adhesive that will bond nicely. I'm surprised JB didn't do the job but the narrow gaps may have been the problem. I would just align the pieces and glue from the back with something like a thin stiff piece of metal. Something like the edge of a wood ruler sounds like an excellent idea. Good luck and glad your back.
Jerry

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - Ron Ramirez - 12-24-2014

Thanks, Jerry, and thanks to all for the suggestions. Between what has been suggested here and on the Facebook radio groups, I think I have a good plan of attack which I will pursue after the holidays are over.

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - OZ4 - 01-11-2015

Hey Ron did you get your grille fixed? I saw today while looking for something to weld up a bad spot in cast iron block. Thought it should help you. They have stuff that is suppose to weld pot metal and everything else. Looks pretty good.
http://muggyweld.com/

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - Ron Ramirez - 01-29-2015

I finally worked up the courage to try and repair the broken grillebar again.

I was not looking forward to cutting notches in the back of the grillebar at each break.

But I managed to get this done without breaking it any further than it already is.

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/41-758EZ/Image00016.jpg]

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/41-758EZ/Image00017.jpg]

Since my Dremel cutting disc cut a fairly wide slot, I decided to use pieces of a small drill bit to reinforce each break instead of the metal edge from a ruler as I originally intended to do.

Sorry, I could not capture pictures as I was gluing the pieces together as I had to work fairly quickly before the metal epoxy set...it was already getting somewhat stiff by the third break.

After a few minutes, it looked like this:

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/41-758EZ/Image00018.jpg]

[Image: http://www.philcoradio.com/images/phorum/41-758EZ/Image00019.jpg]

Wish me luck, folks...I'm keeping my fingers crossed...Icon_think...I'll find out tomorrow whether or not this is successful.

RE: HELP - Broken grille, Philco Tropic 41-758EZ - sam - 01-29-2015

hope it works
[Image: http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag143/mafiamen2/switch/th_IMG_2307_zpsuwcgn3y0.jpg]