Philco 70 flute colorization question - Printable Version
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Philco 70 flute colorization question - Ukhorse - 04-02-2017
I did a complete chemical strip on a 70. Turned out great, case is in almost flawless condition.
Noticed on this 70 before the strip and other original units on the internet the routed flutes in the columns are darker, to set a contrast.
The strip has made the flute routed grooves and surrounding wood all the same color.
I noticed repros refinished here on this site where some have dark flutes and others not. Which is correct ? I don't see how the flutes could have discolored with regards to the column over time so differently. Am I assuming incorrectly the flutes were darkened when produced ? And how did they originally do it ?
I like the darkened flutes.It seems the flutes need to be darkened before using a Mohawk toner.
One way to do it would be to spray the entire column dark, sand the top surface bare, then Mohawk the whole column with a light color. Surprised this has not been discused or I am missing it.
RE: Philco 70 flute colorization question - Ron Ramirez - 04-05-2017
I'm surprised no one has replied here yet, so I will try.
I would suggest spraying the fluted areas with Extra Dark Walnut toner. Once you have the grooves nice and dark (and the surrounding wood will be just as dark), then carefully give the flat surfaces (not within the grooves, just the outer surfaces) a sanding with very fine grade sandpaper, just enough to remove the toner from the areas where you do not want toner. This should just leave toner in the grooves, which is what you want.
Which...is just what you said in the last paragraph of your post.
Steve, Russ, Kirk...feel free to chime in
RE: Philco 70 flute colorization question - Steve Davis - 04-05-2017
+1 to what Ron said.
Be sure to spray a couple of coats of clear first. This will make sanding the toner off the top of the beads easier. Look here: http://philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=10284&page=2 (scroll down about half way). This is the way I add the accent to the columns on my reproduction cabinets.
Steve
RE: Philco 70 flute colorization question - Ukhorse - 04-05-2017
A++ Thanks ! exactly what I was looking for...and couldn't find.
Do you see an issue if I substitute clear gloss lacquer for the Mohawk pre catalyzed clear before spraying the flutes (because that's what I have on hand) ? I assume that 'Mohawk pre catalyzed clear' is what you mean by clear in your write up ?
Also, why are you spraying clear on the face front after you colorize the speaker cutout edges on that build of the cabinet, before using toner ?
"The dark toner has been sanded off the face of the front panel and two more coats of clear have been sprayed."
And then you go over the face front which was sprayed with two coats clear, with toner (?) , where the arch area did not get the clear coats before the toner, just a grain fill.
I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around spraying toner on top of clear (lacquer?)
For years I have always stained and then used my spray guns for the lacquer. However never worked with "toner" before.
Thanks a bunch guys.
RE: Philco 70 flute colorization question - Steve Davis - 04-06-2017
Quote:Do you see an issue if I substitute clear gloss lacquer for the Mohawk pre catalyzed clear before spraying the flutes (because that's what I have on hand) ? I assume that 'Mohawk pre catalyzed clear' is what you mean by clear in your write up ?When I say "clear", I'm referring to clear lacquer. I use Watco brand because it is available locally. I buy my lacquer in gallon cans and apply with a spray gun. Clear lacquer will work fine to seal the columns before spraying the toner.
Quote:I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around spraying toner on top of clear (lacquer?)The columns will require less sanding to remove the toner if sealed first. Without sealing, the toner will get into scratches and minor imperfections and require more sanding.
Quote:Also, why are you spraying clear on the face front after you colorize the speaker cutout edges on that build of the cabinet, before using toner ?
For the same reason as the columns, I want the face of the front panel as smooth as possible before spraying the edges. Any open grain or other imperfections make sanding the toner more difficult. Sanding the toner off almost always results in "sand through" in a few spots. I spray two or three coats of clear, followed by a light sanding before the toner. I like to have a perfectly smooth finish before applying the toner. The reason, you must not sand the toner coats. If you sand the toner, you will have an uneven shade. Follow the toner with more clear. When sanding the final clear, be careful not to sand through.
Steve
RE: Philco 70 flute colorization question - Ukhorse - 04-06-2017
Making sense now thks.
Does using grain filler on the arch negate the requirement for clear laquer coats prior to the toner, or should clear laquer go over the filler like the front before toner? I am assuming you don't use filler on the front ?
I don't have any dark toner only perfect brown and medium brown.
Don't laugh too hard but do you think I could get a way with black spray paint in those grooves as well as the speaker area as it looks close to black anyway? I can see your eyes rolling at me. Eliminates another order and time.
You are a big help. Thks.
RE: Philco 70 flute colorization question - Steve Davis - 04-06-2017
Quote:I am assuming you don't use filler on the front ?
Grain filler is only required on the "open grain" wood which includes the Walnut front panel and the wraparound. The veneer on the front arch is Oriental wood, also an open grain. The columns, base moulding and the edges of the arch do not require grain filling.
Quote:Does using grain filler on the arch negate the requirement for clear lacquer coats prior to the toner, or should clear lacquer go over the filler like the front before toner?
I prefer to spray clear before the toner. I like to have a perfect finish before spraying the toner. This is to minimize sanding after the toner, "sand through" is always a danger, if it happens before the toner, no big deal. If it happens after the toner, it IS a big deal!.
I just want to add, if you ask six restorers how to finish a cabinet, you will get six different answers. I am self taught and some of the things I do may not be the best way. I hope others will post their ideas.
Steve
RE: Philco 70 flute colorization question - Ukhorse - 04-06-2017
Any experience with clear grain fillers ?
RE: Philco 70 flute colorization question - Steve Davis - 04-06-2017
I have never used the clear grain filler.
Steve
RE: Philco 70 flute colorization question - Ron Ramirez - 04-06-2017
I tried to use CrystaLac. Once. Never again.
CrystaLac SUCKS.
It SUCKS.
CrystaLac SUCKS.
It hardens too fast...and then it is nearly impossible to sand or otherwise work with. Yes, it turns rock hard when it hardens. No good for a beginner or less experienced cabinet refinisher (me).
Now, some people use CrystaLac and love it. I finally managed to get it to do what I wanted it to do on a 19B front panel, but the work involved...oy vey...it isn't worth it...in my opinion.
RE: Philco 70 flute colorization question - Warren - 04-06-2017
(04-06-2017, 07:47 AM)Ukhorse Wrote: I don't have any dark toner only perfect brown and medium brown.
Every time you spray a toner it gets darker and darker, so why don't you pick the darker brown you have and just spray a few coats on it until it gets to be as dark as you like it. A dark brown is very close to black also, right?
RE: Philco 70 flute colorization question - klondike98 - 04-06-2017
Not all paints will be compatible with the lacquer that you will want to put over them so you would at least have to do some testing. I have used a black or dark brown acrylic for the small inside portion of the cutouts for speaker grills ( https://www.amazon.com/DecoArt-Americana-Acrylic-Paint-2-Ounce/dp/B000XZVP0Q/ref=sr_1_5?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1491525123&sr=1-5&keywords=black+decoArt+craft+paint ) that has not given me any problems with lacquer coverage.