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General Restoration Questions - Tgace459 - 04-05-2017

Hi folks!

With the return of Spring and 70 degree temperatures I'm anticipating cabinet restoration season. Which is when I can finally get out into my garage and the humidity/temps are appropriate for lacquering.

I picked up a spray gun over the winter and intend to try topcoating with that vs the rattle cans I've been using up to now.

That being said... my previous cabinet work was always clear coat lacquer over grain filled/stained wood. They came out fairly nice for a novice, but now I want to start using toned lacquers and was wondering:


RE: General Restoration Questions - Ron Ramirez - 04-05-2017

The factory did not use stains; they used tinted lacquer (toner) to achieve the color(s) they wanted.

You should do the same thing.

The toner goes on first, followed by several coats of clear.

Well...the proper approach is...strip, lightly sand, two coats of sanding sealer, grain filler, sand, add more grain filler if needed until surface is completely smooth. Then sand, toner (two or three coats), and clear coats (four to eight, lightly sanding with progressively finer grades of sandpaper every two coats).

Now, Steve Davis, Russ (Phlogiston), Kirk, or any of our other cabinet experts may jump in and correct me. Feel free Icon_smile

RE: General Restoration Questions - Tgace459 - 04-06-2017

So you suggest sealing before grain filling? I've always grain filled and stained before sealing. Ill have to try your method and see how it works.

I typically use a water based filler.

RE: General Restoration Questions - klondike98 - 04-06-2017

I think some, though not all, grain fillers will tend to stain the wood as well as fill the grain. a coat of sanding sealer before grain filling cuts down on that staining action. After the sanding sealer, the toner lacquer will generate the tone you want.

RE: General Restoration Questions - Ron Ramirez - 04-06-2017

Right. Especially oil-based grain fillers (which I use). The oils in the filler will stain the wood unless you seal the wood first. I like to use two coats of sanding sealer, sand very lightly with fine sandpaper (600-800 grit), then grain fill, sand lightly again, more grain fill as/if needed, light sand, then toner coats.

Toning lacquer will give a uniform color which you can never achieve with stains. Certain cheap "white woods" will not take stain well, if at all. Toning lacquer eliminates this problem.

And, besides, toning lacquer just looks better...and is what the factories used originally.

RE: General Restoration Questions - Phlogiston - 04-12-2017

Ron has it except for a large variable concerning grain filler. It depends very much on what kind you use - all have drawbacks.

Por-o-pac type:  Oil based filler (like clay). Can be brushed or troweled on and brushed off (excess). May be stained/tinted BUT! the tint will transfer to the bare wood causing darker/or different results than desired - fix: use lighter tint with careful application. Goes on best on bare wood - has trouble sticking to sealed wood, requiring more careful removal of excess.

Crystal-lac type: Water based filler (like old-school paste). Should be troweled on in multiple coats, since it shrinks (too). Should be applied on top of sealer NOT on top of finish lacquer since spraying of the top coat can wash the grain-filler out of the grain if applied on top of a finish coat. I have never felt the need to tint this stuff since it is clear UNLESS applied too thickly - in holes and such. Do not apply on bare wood.

There are other types/names, but all that I have found apply to one of the above types EXCEPT:

French polish type: No grain filler. Instead sanding sealer and finish coat lacquer is built up in many layers to fill the grain. Draw-backs: Much more experience is required with a LOT of careful sanding AND - since the finish WILL continue to shrink over months, it may take months to get it right. Beginners tend to get some or all of the finish too thick - especially with sanding sealer - resulting in cloudiness and/or cracking of the topcoat (lacquer finish needs to be thin) If you have troubles with BLUSH, this process can be a nightmare. NOT RECCOMENDED for RATTLE CAN applications. Long drying periods between coats/sanding required.

Toner can be applied after the grain filler is sealed.

RE: General Restoration Questions - Tgace459 - 04-14-2017

Just to be clear. If I use a water based filler you suggest applying it on top of sealer. Do I then seal it again before topcoating/toning?

RE: General Restoration Questions - Phlogiston - 04-14-2017

You can do that, and then, sand again before a topcoat.

RE: General Restoration Questions - Tgace459 - 04-14-2017

Let me ask ya this.

If I want to have dark accents on a radio, is it best to mask for each tone separately when applying? Or do I coat the entire cabinet with the lighter tone then just mask for the darker areas and apply the darker toner over the lighter base?

RE: General Restoration Questions - Phlogiston - 04-14-2017

That really depends on what radio you are talking about. Sometimes it is ok to "mask" (or use other process) to darken the accents/base/whatever and then spray a toner over the top of it all - say VD brown on the accents then topped with med brown walnut - just don't use too much of the walnut and the dark areas will stay dark (rather than brown).

In some cases an airbrush can give a better effect than masking.

RE: General Restoration Questions - Tgace459 - 04-25-2017

After applying Crystallac grain fill and sanding/sealing/sanding I wound up with this discoloration.

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/fTfdP2e.jpg]

Is this something you think toner will even out? Or am I screwed into a redo?

RE: General Restoration Questions - Ron Ramirez - 04-25-2017

I think you'll be fine after toner coats, but I'll let one of the experts answer this one...

RE: General Restoration Questions - Steve Davis - 04-25-2017

It looks to me like you have some "sand through". I would spray another coat of sealer before spraying toner.

Steve

RE: General Restoration Questions - Tgace459 - 04-25-2017

I thought it was a sand through too, but it's otherwise as smooth as glass and looks no different in texture from the rest of the panel.

RE: General Restoration Questions - Kenneth F. Besso Jr. - 04-25-2017

LITTLE High spots in thee Veneer,,,when using a sanding BLOCK or board ,,,it flattens and level's everything,,,