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Toner question - Printable Version

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Toner question - mcusi - 07-08-2017

I'm wondering about what the best approach is for darkening the base moulding and pillars on a properly refinished Philco 90. By proper, I mean it was done with spray lacquer. To my eye, having looked at many pictures, the two areas mentioned are to light. 
Can someone walk me thru from where am am to the finish??

RE: Toner question - klondike98 - 07-08-2017

Do you mean that your 90 has already been refinished but you are not happy with the darkness of the molding and pillars and want to do something to darken it? Can you post of photo to better help folks to judge what to do. Be aware you may get multiple opinions of what to do next Icon_biggrin

How to post pics.

RE: Toner question - mcusi - 07-08-2017

Here is a current photo.

RE: Toner question - klondike98 - 07-09-2017

ah..yes it looks like the original finish was stripped off and then clear lacquer was applied to the stripped wood without any toner being applied.

I've restored a Philco 50 which used a 70 cabinet which has a similar look to a 90. I used Mohawk Ultra Classic Medium Brown Walnut on the front arch and Mohawk Ultra Classic Perfect Brown on the rest. then it was all coated with several coats of Deft Clear gloss lacquer available in most hardware stores.

As to going about fixing your set I think the guys that have more cabinet experience will offer the best advice.

It may be possible to add toner over top of the lacquer layers you already have and then apply additional clear gloss over the toner. I've never done it so I can't say how it will turn out. If it fails you've only lost the time and cost of the toner/lacquer. You can re-strip it and start the process over.

RE: Toner question - mcusi - 07-09-2017

Thanks Bob! My hope is that I can do as you describe and obtain a good result.

RE: Toner question - Phlogiston - 07-09-2017

IF that is lacquer already on the radio, it will work.

Study the shading on a good example before you start. Go light on the toner until the color you want is achieved.

RE: Toner question - Nathan Slingerland - 07-09-2017

I haven't refinished a 90 myself but this thread from ARF has a very detailed walk through of the process:

http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=220363

It's pretty long so you may want to skip to the toner step:
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=220363&start=80

RE: Toner question - mcusi - 07-09-2017

I'm certain that it was finished with lacquer, so I'll mask off the top, sides and arch and see what I get. I have

RE: Toner question - mcusi - 07-09-2017

Mohawk ultra perfect brown, and extra dark walnut

RE: Toner question - klondike98 - 07-09-2017

Thanks for chiming in Russ (phlogiston) I was hoping you would add a comment. I wasn't sure how toner over the clear would do. Good to know.

RE: Toner question - Phlogiston - 07-09-2017

Sam, the solvents in any lacquer product partially melt the existing layer of material. This is more so on lacquer that is months old as compared to 40 years old. So the "coats" blend together or bond together. BUT the toner coat is VERY fragile and can be easily scratched. This is why I never sand a toner coat, not to mention the disaster it would bring as far as light and dark spots. Put on the toner and then add several clear top coats before doing anything else.

RE: Toner question - mcusi - 07-09-2017

Thank all of you for the advice and information! Upon more careful inspection of the cabinet, I've decided to re-do the entire thing. (Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment, but I think I can do this!) I'll strip the cabinet tomorrow.
I've read several threads and I know there are probably as many ways to do this as there are people on the forum. My plan is to strip it, grain-fill, toner, then numerous finish coats. I'm I missing anything critical? I've read various things about "sealing" the cabinet, but I'm not sure when this is necessary and with what product.

RE: Toner question - klondike98 - 07-09-2017

Some grain fillers apparently can stain the wood as well as fill the grain. Applying the lacquer sanding sealer before grain filling help eliminate that staining issue. I don't recall which grain filler folks were talking about having the issue.

RE: Toner question - Phlogiston - 07-09-2017

Tinted clay-type filler like Por-o-pac. If you are going to seal it first use Crystal-lac (clear, needs no tint).

Let me caution you, the first time most people use ANY grain filler usually leads to some cursing.

RE: Toner question - klondike98 - 07-09-2017

Russ, its more often than just the first time.... Icon_lol