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16X console to tombstone swop? - Printable Version

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16X console to tombstone swop? - sdradioman - 08-06-2017

Does anyone know if the speaker in the model 16X console is the same used in the 16B tombstone? I assume the chassis are the same but was wondering about the speaker... I may have a lead on a bare 16B tombstone cabinet and I already have a rough 16X console but it works and the chassis and speaker are in great shape... Was just wondering if I could do the swop...

RE: 16X console to tombstone swop? - Nathan Slingerland - 08-06-2017

They are different speakers.

All of the 16B tombstones use the H-13 speaker (the cathedral uses the smaller K-17 speaker). The consoles use the U-2 speaker. The later mounts differently and has a heavier duty field coil than the H-13. The chassis are similar but different code numbers. The tombstones would typically be code 121 (5-band) or 125 (4-band) while the console would be 122 (5-band) or 126 (4-band). The consoles use the 5Z3 rectifier while the tombstone chassis use an 80 tube.

Speaker details in Ron's speaker spreadsheet which can be downloaded here:

http://www.philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=215

Details on the rectifier and code number differences:

http://philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=15652

RE: 16X console to tombstone swop? - sdradioman - 08-06-2017

So size wise, the chassis should fit and they both use a 10 1/2" speaker... if the only difference is the way the speaker mounts then I should somehow be able to modify it to fit... I just wanted to know if it would fit... I dont care about correct codes and numbers because I will be swopping the entire chassis/speaker over, not mixing and matching electrical parts... Thanks so much for the link to Ron's information...

RE: 16X console to tombstone swop? - Nathan Slingerland - 08-06-2017

The U-2 speaker is really heavy - you might be able to squeeze it in but I'd wonder how to mount it in a tombstone cabinet.

There's a good picture of the U-2 here:

http://www.tuberadioland.com/images/philco16x_10.jpg

The H-13 speaker in a 16B tombstone:

http://www.tuberadioland.com/philco16b_tombstones_1_2_side_by_side.html

The H-13 speakers are not all that uncommon since they were used in many models. In fact I have a spare H-13 speaker with a bad output transformer - it might be possible to swap the U-2 output transformer onto it. PM me if you're interested.

It shouldn't be too hard to convert a 16X chassis - not even sure if it's necessary to change anything. Perhaps someone else could chime in about the electrical requirements if you're interested in that route.

Best of luck either way.

RE: 16X console to tombstone swop? - Radioroslyn - 08-06-2017

I think TA Forbes did up a set like that. Don't remember the particulars. You would have to fabricate some internal bracing to mount a U style spkr. It would bust out the grille work if you just mounted it from the front I would think.
For a brief moment I thought of putting a 116X chassis in my late model 116B. Hardly any room on either side of the chassis to fit some sort of a rear support for the U spkr unless the support rested on the chassis some way.

On the other hand I didn't see a separate schematic 16X vs 16B maybe I didn't look hard enough. But both use the same tube line up barring the 5Z3/80 which would indicate that the HV supply maybe a bit more robust in the X model. Would check out the current handing ability of the field coil of the H spkr to see if it is up to the task. If so I would just use the H spkr instead of tring to mount the U spkr.

RE: 16X console to tombstone swop? - Ron Ramirez - 08-06-2017

I would use an H-13 speaker. I would never put a U-2 in a tombstone cabinet unless, as Terry said, some added bracing was added. (Actually, I personally would not put a U-2 speaker in a tombstone, period, end of story.)

The console version 16 runs a higher B+. You will be OK with an H-13. I've made such a swap before, only it was a 116X chassis into a 116B cabinet - and I used an H-13 speaker. Worked just fine, even with the mismatch of audio output transformer that expected 42 tubes to 6A3 output tubes. Since all flavors of the 16 use 42 output tubes, you will be perfectly fine with an H-13.

RE: 16X console to tombstone swop? - sdradioman - 08-06-2017

So Ron, youre saying that if I locate an H-13 speaker, it would plug right into my 16X chassis and it would work just fine, no modifications needed??

RE: 16X console to tombstone swop? - Arran - 08-07-2017

The H-13 field coil may run a little hot given the higher B+ used in the console models, but you could buck that down by adding an extra choke or power resistors in series with it.
Regards
Arran

RE: 16X console to tombstone swop? - Ron Ramirez - 08-07-2017

What Arran said, although I did not experience any problems with my 116X and 116B (H-13) speaker.