Philco 45C restoration - Printable Version
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Philco 45C restoration - morzh - 06-12-2019
This is the one I recently bought on eBay; the one without tone control shaft.
I was afraid someone did a lot of work on it, but no: even though there is glue on the speaker cone, and a new cord, and the cloth doesn't seem to be authentic (or even right pattern) - inside the chassis it is mostly untouched aside from the electrolytics: they were change at least twice, first when they replaced the cans for non-Philco ones, and now these are cut off and the tubular capacitors were installed.
All tubular Philco paper caps and the backelite block(s?) are intact.
Here are some pictures.
The cabinet
The back view.
The screws holding the chassis are not original: these are wood screws.
Not sure if this is how it should be.
RE: Philco 45C restoration - morzh - 06-12-2019
Chassis
Speaker
Underchassis
The tone ctl and new lytics
RE: Philco 45C restoration - morzh - 06-12-2019
Another newer lytic
Bad insulation....non-rubber.
Well this is it for today.
RE: Philco 45C restoration - Radioroslyn - 06-13-2019
Nathan got me interest in the 45 and took a look at the diagram. It's kinda interesting. No rf amp but dual if amps. Have only seen that on the higher end Philcos like the 16 and up. Might be a bit quieter +1. Tone compensation network (loudness network). A bit of low frequency boost @ low volume levels +1. May not matter too much on the table top sets as the spkr is somewhat small. Treble cut switch. High inductance choke feeding the hv to the mixer oscillator screen grid.
At 1st glance I thought it was going to be a pretty pedestrian set similar to 60 or 66 but should be a better performer. Have keep my eyes open @ Ktown to see if I can find a reasonable there. Shipping is brutal.
RE: Philco 45C restoration - morzh - 06-13-2019
I just wonder how the shaft could've gotten lost from the tone control.
The tone control looks similar to the 16 or 620 style. I have one or two junk chassis, might borrow from there.
RE: Philco 45C restoration - morzh - 06-13-2019
In the sch in both Riders and the Library there is a mistake: Resistor 37 should have a tiedot with the very first bus it crosses (B+ after field coil).
Also I have a large resistor connected directly between this bus and the chassis which is missing in both assy dwg and the sch.
I wonder if some service bulletin has it.
RE: Philco 45C restoration - morzh - 06-17-2019
As I remember from the previous experience with the 45 chassis (I restored it for Kirk 2-3 years ago), the phenolic panels were not very convenient. Even when the screws are removed, the wires and parts soldered from beneath hold it from easy turning, so extracting parts, if one wants to do it neatly, is a bit laborious.
The tubular paper caps I have have rolled ends. This is the second time I encounter these. Even though the extracting the cartridge did not pose much problem, the unrolled end has to either be cut or potted over as is. I prefer to cut but then it depends on the length of the inserted film cap: for 0.1uF the cap is long and the cut tube does not have enough space for it inside to have a wad inserted (even if I re-use the fiber washers that are there). Of course I could've used smaller caps but I only store one type, 630V film by Illinois capacitor and those are fairly good size.
The resistor in question (the one absent in the sch or in Buzz' radio) is authentic Philco and the soldering was all original factory, so I want to see if by chance the speaker's FC resistance is a bit lower and maybe they were trying to lower the overall B+ for every tube by loading it with some extra resistance. I doubt the rising AC voltage had anything to do with it.
RE: Philco 45C restoration - morzh - 06-17-2019
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philco-Model-45-Butterfly-AM-SW-Radio-Tested-And-Working-See-My-30-Pictures/333236112051?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Here's another 45C on the eBay now that has that extra resistor in.
RE: Philco 45C restoration - morzh - 06-19-2019
The two resistors of the same value (according to the sch 32K) are waaaaay off.
He big one is 14K.
The smaller one is 69k.
The lqrge 32K.
The smaller 32K and the other end of it.
I hope I'm right and 32K is the value.
RE: Philco 45C restoration - morzh - 06-21-2019
One of the antenna transformer's coils are open. Seems like it broke off and could be resoldered. It is that coil that is wound on its own bobbin at the top of the assembly.
Noticed it by chance but would've probably run into it anyway.
The tendency I noticed with Philco resistors is unchanged: large resistors drift down (32K is 14K and 51K is 22K) and small drift up (32K is 69K). I replaced them, even that 51K which us not in the sch and not in some chassis.
RE: Philco 45C restoration - rfeenstra - 06-22-2019
I'm watching your restoration with great interest. I bought the 45 on ebay that you referenced in a previous post. Didn't pay listed price. Made an offer he accepted. Arrived today. As he mentioned, some finish work had been done. I will completely refinish it and add the decals that are gone. This one has the same caps with rolled ends. I'll be analyzing everything when I get the Philharmonic power supply ready for re-chroming. Keep up with progress reports as I'm learning from you!!
RE: Philco 45C restoration - rfeenstra - 06-22-2019
The seller said it worked - and it does! Stations all across the dial and SW works as well. At least I know all transformers and tubes are okay. I'll still completely restore it electronically. I don't want those old caps in there.
RE: Philco 45C restoration - morzh - 06-22-2019
You will be right to do so.
I will attempt repairing that coil today.
Oh....and the trap coil also has one lead broken off. Though useless, I will repair it too.
RE: Philco 45C restoration - rfeenstra - 06-27-2019
Experiencing similar things as you with resistor values. All are way off. If I replace some, I may as well replace all. Not sure I'm up for making dog bones, though. One Bakelite cap block is missing and replaced with a hanging connection and a tubular cap. I don't have any Philco Bakelite caps laying around to put one back in. while my Philly PS/Amp is in for re-chroming, I may finish this one!
RE: Philco 45C restoration - morzh - 06-28-2019
I am lucky my chassis only had the electrolytics replaced.
As for the resistors, well, it depends. Though I myself do not make the dog-bones, I am OK with them where the dissipation is small; I am not sure how these would take anything about 1/2W and up, considering they are embedded in plastic. The overmolded with epoxy and mineral filler, that someone here at some point showed, are probably good to stand up to heat, but that is not something I typically would do.
I usually measure the resistors, and when I see them under 10% deviation I leave them in without any remorse: if they did not change much in 70-80 years, they are not likely to do so within the rest of my lifetime, which is likely not going to be very long anyway.
Also what I do sometimes, if a resistor 20-30% up (as what most dog-bones are), and the dissipation is not high, I will parallel a resistor to bring it to almost exact value and hide it under (which is easy - modern resistors up to 1W are fairly small and are barely if at all seen under a large dog-bone one).
I will show it on photos when I am done.