16B - Printable Version
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16B - w4rtc - 11-06-2011
My 16B has the cathedral cabinet. The veneer on the sides and over the top was gone when I got it. I have some walnut veneer that I want to put on the cabinet. How do I keep veneer in contact with the cabinet over the top and down the sides while the glue is drying?? I made a dry run with bungie cords holding it but it was not good enough. It would take a c clamp with a very deep throat and many of them to get a good contact over the top and down the sides. Also what kind of glue should I use? Would ty-bond be o k?? Help will be appreciated Joe
Re: 16B - thirtiesradio - 11-07-2011
You need to use contact cement to attach large pieces of veneer. I use the flammable type as the water based doesn't seem to work as well.
Cut veneer to the exact size. Spread contact cement on the back side of the veneer and the cabinet.
Wait until tacky then carefully line up the veneer and attach to the cabinet starting on one edge and moving along the veneer. I keep small wood sticks or heavy paper between the veneer and cabinet and remove them as I go along so the veneer won't stick where you don't want it to. Be careful as you won't be able to remove and realign the veneer if you put it on incorrectly. When the veneer is on the cabinet rub with a veneer roller or rounded edge of a wood block. If any edges lift afterwards you can brush in a small amount of contact cement to reactivate it. Good luck with your project!
Re: 16B - Arran - 11-08-2011
If you could take the cabinet apart so you can deal with the arch seperately it will make things easier. If you can do that then you can use a larger piece of veneer then what you need with the contact cement and then trim the overlapping veneer to size after it's glued on. I believe that they used plain cut French walnut veneer originally but if they used an extra dark walnut finish over top you can use black walnut or just about anything. I don't know about the 16B cathedrals but some models had the grain of the veneer running from back to front or side to side over the arch depending on when the cabinet was made during the production run. Usually when it gets to the point where the cabinet looses the top layer of veneer of the arch the other layers of the arch are just about to fall off along with the rest of the cabinet.
Regards
Arran
Re: 16B - Steve Davis - 11-14-2011
Joe, I'm with Arran on this one. Remove the wrap around so you can re-veneer it as a flat piece. I use the yellow wood glue, slightly thinned. Apply the glue to both the wrap and the veneer, then clamp between two boards. You might consider just replacing the wrap around.
Steve
Re: 16B - thirtiesradio - 11-19-2011
If you have the early arch top you won't need to take it apart as you use one piece from one side bottom, across the top, to the other side bottom. At least this is the "cathedral" cabinet style I was thinking you have. Removing the side bottom scribe mouldings is necessary but there is no need to take the cabinet apart. You may be having trouble if trying to apply non backed veneer as it won't easily hold a bend. You need the thinner paper-backed type. I wouldn't use wood glue on non-backed veneer as it can bleed through the wood and keep it from later receiving a good finishing. Use contact cement for paper backed veneer and veneer cement for the thicker non backed veneer. I use a special glue pot and the "blue" contact cement for the thinner paper back types.
If you have the later "peaked top" style I'd also use the paper backed veneer as it is much easier to bend. Use the paper backed thin veneer on either cabinet style because using the "correct original" non paper backed veneer requires extensive equipment to get perfect results. With non backed veneer you use a veneer softner and put any flat pieces like the side pieces in a vacuum press to flatten them out completely. This won't be necessary with the thinner paper backed veneer. I use a veneer press for replacing veneer on shapes like the top but since you are doing it without a press I'd use the thinner paper back veneer and contact cement. I use a virutex trimmer for with-the-grain cuts and a veneer saw for cross grain. If doing the front you would also need a belt driven trimmer for the grill cutouts. Way too many tools for just one cabinet.
With minimum tools on either cabinet you can get by with paper-backed veneer, sandpaper, contact cement a roller and razor knife.
Re: 16B - Arran - 11-20-2011
Without seeing any pictures it's hard to say whether you would have to take the cabinet apart or not. I'm not a fan of paper backed veneer as the actual layer of veneer they use is ridiculously thin and the selection of cuts and species of veneer is rather bland, paper backed veneer is usually more expensive then the proper kind as well. Since this is a cathedral style cabinet if you are going to do it do it right, there is no sense in cutting corners just to get it back together. If it were be I would pick up some framing lumber like 2X6s, 2X8s, or 2X10s, and make a form for the arch with a band saw, plywood would work for this as well, it's sort of hard to describe but you would basically cut an inner and an outter form and clamp the layers of veneer inbetween. If you aren't sure what to do I would see if Steve Davis can repair the cabinet for you, or maybe make the arch at least, he reproduces Philco cathedral cabinets and parts.
Regards
Arran
Re: 16B - thirtiesradio - 11-21-2011
I agree and rarely use the paper backed veneer. It's to easy to sand through and difficult to find sequential matched veneer for marquetry work or bookmatching that is used on radio cabinets. I'm restoring a horribly water damaged Atwater Kent 447 now and using solid quartered sequential Walnut for the straight grained 45 deg.center section. I have to make my own trimming bit for use in a belt driven offset router to trim the veneer in the dial area as it has an ogee contour. This is all after rebonding the completely delaminated front, bottom and side wood sections and reforming all sections back to their original flat condition. It will be complely original minus the front Walnut and a couple very small sections of the marquetry bands.
But for what he's doing and without the tools I think paper backed would work out the best. You can't bend and install the solid veneer correctly without a softner and form. It will want to lift or bubble... and that's if you end up getting it bonded correctly over the arch.
Anyway I wish him the best of luck!