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New PHILCO 630 - Printable Version

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New PHILCO 630 - Jeremy - 08-18-2013

Hello, I am new to the phorum and new to old radios. I collect antique clocks, mostly. I just got a Philco model 630 at a local flea market. It is unrestored and in working condition. I have two questions, to start: is there a safe way to clean the dial without removing the markings? And, is the ground terminal on the chassis used to improve reception or is it a safety feature? My initial reading is that the later "American 5-tube" radios did not have transformers and the metal chassis were therefore part of the electrical circuit. But this Philco appears to have a transformer, and, with no back on the cabinet, can I assume that the chassis is not supposed to be electrically live?

I have posted a picture, and will post more later with questions about the finish (the front panel is excellent and just needs to be cleaned).

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Ron Ramirez - 08-18-2013

Hello and welcome!

You can find the proper procedure for cleaning the dial scale here:
http://www.philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=1503

Just remember, rub lightly, don't apply pressure.

The chassis is at ground potential. Reception can often be improved by using a ground. If left ungrounded, the set's AC bypass capacitors does impress an AC voltage on the chassis, which is not strong enough to shock you but you will notice a tiny spark if you connect a ground wire to the set's GND terminal when the set is plugged in.

RE: New PHILCO 630 - codefox1 - 08-18-2013

Agree with all said, but do have a look inside to see if a recent restoration has been done, i.e. at very least the filter capacitors. If everything looks original, quite simply it's a time bomb and needs attention before powering up again. Cabinet will come out fine. Best!

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Jeremy - 08-18-2013

Thanks for the replies. The seller said it was straight out of a barn, though he dusted the cabinet and interior. I'll post a picture of the inside later. It sure looks untouched to me. I doubt if I'll try to look under the chassis.

I understand that even if it plays it could self-destruct at any moment if it hasn't had certain components replaced. There's not a lot to listen to on the AM band anyway. I did listen for a bit last night to a show called "Big Band Sounds" on WNYC-AM. It was great to hear 1930's music played on a 1930's radio! Has anyone invented a home device to convert FM signals to AM?

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Ron Ramirez - 08-18-2013

I misspoke on the chassis ground potential. Chassis ground on many Philco sets is slightly positive in relation to the set's B- due to the use of a bias resistor in the power supply. In other words, the most negative spot in the set is B-, the center tap of the set's power transformer's high voltage secondary. Still, not enough to produce any sort of shock.

But always remember, safety first. I wouldn't fool around with a live radio while standing in water on the concrete floor of a partially flooded basement, for example.

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Ron Ramirez - 08-18-2013

Now, concerning the conversion of FM to AM: There were millions of FM converters sold in the 1960s for car radios. If you can find one of these, you can listen to FM through your AM radio as it has a built-in, low power AM transmitter. Or, you can find an FM tuner and modify your set's audio circuitry to play FM or even MP3s from your iPod through your vintage Philco.

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Jeremy - 08-18-2013

As promised, here are a couple of pictures of the back of the radio, showing the chassis and other parts.

Ron, thank you for the tip on the FM converters. There are a couple on eBay now. As I understand it, other than needing a 12-volt power supply, there is no wired connection between the converter and the radio. If that's correct, it should be a good option.

Concerning the cabinet finish (I can repost this in the cabinet forum), all the discussions I have seen about this model, including the b & w photo of the Philco showroom that I think is on this site, indicate that the case originally had a two-tone finish. My cabinet appears to have its original finish with no overcoats, and it also appears two-tone, with the front panel being slightly lighter than the rest. However, after cleaning a section of the front with the adjacent trim section (see posted photos), the differences seem very minor. They seem to have more to do with the type of wood or grain than with an intent to provide darker and lighter shades of lacquer. Unfortunately, unlike the front panel, the trim, sides, and top of my cabinet have too much flaking to just clean and preserve.

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Paul Philco322 - 08-24-2013

Maybe a jack could be added, play a cd player, tape deck, or FM radio right into the set. Not sure how that would work with this model though.
All the best.

Paul

RE: New PHILCO 630 - exray - 08-25-2013

You could probably recoup the money you paid for the radio and then some by selling that globe 80 tube to the audiophile crowd. They pay dearly for those tubes nowadays!

I have the chairside version of the 630 and its a pretty darn good radio.

You really should get it re-capped as soon as possible.

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Geoff - 08-26-2013

Here is an excellent YouTube video series covering the electrical restoration of a Philco 630:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IelT-Qp13po

This series is where the same person refinishes the cabinet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIyMt75Wk_k

Also, is it me or is the grille cloth upside down?

- Geoff

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Jeremy - 09-03-2013

Geoff and exray,

The cloth certainly is upside down! Maybe a factory error? There's no sign it's been replaced in recent years.

When I got the radio home it would not play, even though the vendor said it did. I noticed that a tube seemed to be missing--the no. 80. It had fallen out but was still in the vendor's car, so I was lucky to get it. What would I replace this tube with if I sold it?

To date I have completed stripping the old finish from the cabinet, except for the front panel. I used duct tape to remove 90% of the finish and scrapers to remove the rest. After a little filling and sanding, I'll be ready for a new finish. I'm a little confused by the typical recommendation to use paste wood (grain) filler, since the grain on the sides, top, and trim is not open. There doesn't seem to be any grain to fill. The front panel is walnut, I think, and is an open-grained wood, but I'm not refinishing the front.

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Tom Hamilton - 09-03-2013

Jeremy, I can't stress enough what others have said about servicing your radio before turning it on again. What you've got is a very nice radio that will play and sound even better when it's been properly serviced. I would also encourage you to check out Phil's Old Radios at www.antiqueradio.org . He has some great advice for beginners. The You Tube videos of Joernone, mentioned earlier, are outstanding. If you want to do the work yourself, there is plenty of help and advice on this forum. Good luck with your radio. Tom

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Arran - 09-03-2013

The original type #80 tube was a shouldered type or ST style, like the rest of the tubes in your 630, not a balloon or globe type. In reality it doesn't make any difference electrically which one you use, something the audiophools would know if they actually sat down and read a tube manual or knew anything about how an electron tube worked. There isn't any harm in using it as long as the capacitors are in good condition, but should you pick up an earlier AC radio built in the late 1920s or early 30s it would be a perfect match for that.
There was a reason why they came out with the shouldered type envelopes. With a rectifier or other types it didn't matter so much but with audio tubes you could end up with microphonic problems because the elements were free standing and only supported from the base. This what I find silly about the so called audiophools, they claim that they want "perfect sound" but they insist on using tubes with an envelope design that makes that impossible.
Regards
Arran

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Jeremy - 09-03-2013

Well, the no. 80 tube in my radio is a replacement RCA tube--non-shouldered. So, Arran, if I understand what you've said, in this case the non-original RCA globe tube is more valuable than the original shouldered tube.

RE: New PHILCO 630 - Jeremy - 09-08-2013

I thought I would post some pictures of my progress on restoring the cabinet. The first photos show it with the old lacquer stripped from the top, sides, and trim using duct tape and scrapers, followed by a very small amount of filling and light sanding. In these pictures,the front panel has been cleaned with Howard's Restore-a-Shine and paste wax, and the knobs have been cleaned with Novus polish. I still need to dab some paint on the speaker screws and touch up the edges of the panel where they return into the grille cloth.

The second group shows the cabinet with the stripped portions stained. I decided not to use the toned lacquer method, because I do not feel I could achieve a good result with the spray can product. Certainly if I had professional spraying equipment, that would be the way to go. I applied a very dark stain and will follow up with many coats of Formby's tung oil varnish, a wipe-on product. With enough coats, this will build up the finish to a lacquer-like thickness. I will then rub it out and wax. The photos show the stain with no tung oil yet.

I am working on finding someone to do the electronic restoration.