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Newbie Please Help!!! Philco 610 Electro. Capacitor Dilemma - Printable Version

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Newbie Please Help!!! Philco 610 Electro. Capacitor Dilemma - Guest - 01-13-2008

Hello Philco Gurus,

This is my first post here, in addition to my first radio restoration! Of course, it is a Philco, a 610 tombstone. I heard that if you have a problem or question, this is the place to come.

I am very new to electronics and restoration, so please bare with me at what might seem elementary questions for you veterans.

OK, here goes. My radio hums (big suprise huh?). I replaced all the paper capacitors last night. Everything checked out fine with my work. I was ready to replace the three "Can" electrolytics when I hit a road block.

Here is the schematic I have been using:

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/797/M0013797.pdf

The three caps are:
Schematic #41 16-uf Part No. 30-2118
Schematic #56 8-uf Part No. 30-2025
Schematic #54 8-uf Part No. 30-2025

I have all of the correct value elecrolytic replacements I believe. 3 new caps in all, they are all axial type (2) 8 uf caps and (1) 16 uf cap.

This is what I am unsure of:
I have attached a few photos. Hopefully they post, if not please paste the link into your browser. The first is of the chasis top, second is of the #41 16-uf cap. underneath, the second is of both the #41 and #56 caps underneath.


Chasis Pic:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2713750100102856006gFZDvI

#41 Under Chasis Pic:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2127182410102856006dbUBqW

#56 and #41 Under Chasis Pic:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2085684080102856006AVdlMO

Before I start my questions, I do know that I need to disconnect the caps.

Okay, my question are the following. In pic number 2 (#41 cap), why is there 2 terminals? There is nothing in the schematic that says it has 2 caps inside the can. There is also nothing in the schematic that tells me the (+) or (-). I noticed that the cap. is insulated from the chasis. Does this mean that the terminal on the outer rim is the ground? That being said, do I solder the (+) lead of the new cap to the wire leads that were connected to the center downrod and the (-) lead of the new cap to the wire leads that were connected to the terminal on the outer rim? I am confused and don't want to destroy this beauty!?!?!

Secondly, in the third pic of both caps. On cap #56, do I solder the positive lead of the new cap to the wire leads that were connected to the downrod? There is only one terminal on this cap. I assume this cap is grounded by the chasis correct? So where do I solder the (-) lead if the chasis is the ground (I do not know where to solder the (-) ground lead on the new cap. if the chasis is the ground on the old cap...please help). I know this last question is elementary, but please bare with me.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Nick

- TonyJSenior - 01-13-2008

Congrats on your first restore! In looking at the schematic, I believe that the capacitor that is isolated from the chassis is #56, not #41. On that second lug it looks like the negative of capacitor #56 ultimately connects to the center tap of the transformer (noted as '4'). The insulator at the base of the existing capacitor isolates the case from the chassis The other two are shown having their negative terminals connecting to the chassis.

Thanks TonyJSenior - Guest - 01-13-2008

For the feedback.

So on the isolated cap, should I mount the (-) lead of the new cap. to the wires that were attached to the second terminal? The (+) lead of the new cap to the wires that were attached to the center downrod?

For the other two caps. that are grounded by the chasis, how should I solder them? The (+) lead of the new cap to the wire leads that were attached to the downrod? If so, that leads me with the (-) lead of the new cap. How do I mount the negative lead?

Thanks again!

- TonyJSenior - 01-14-2008

Correct - on the isolated one, the replacement connects between the wiring attached to the two lugs with the center lug being the positive side as you said. As far as the others, the center lug is also positive as well, but you'll need to find a chassis point to connect the negatives of the replacement caps to. I've not seen a 610, but in the sets I have Philco often has chassis connection terminals riveted to the chassis underside that can be used. Usually those bakelite blocks have a chassis connection on them as well. Don't forget to disconnect the wiring from the old caps just in case they're shorted when installing the new ones Icon_smile

- TonyJSenior - 01-14-2008

Another thing I forgot to mention - when you said you replaced all the paper caps, those bakelite units usually need to be recapped as well. Some people prefer to 'restuff' them and here is a link with how to do it:
http://www.philcorepairbench.com/capbuild.htm

Thanks again TonyJSenior - Guest - 01-14-2008

That info. was great.

I'll have to let you know how everything turns out. In the meantime, I'll be searching for those chasis terminals.

Cheers!

Eureka!!! - Guest - 01-14-2008

That was it!

My first radio restoration is a success!

TonyJSenior, thanks to you and PhilcoRadio.com, another Philco beauty has been brought back to life, singing it's magic!

Cheers!

- TonyJSenior - 01-14-2008

Congrats! Glad it all worked out. I'm somewhat new to these old radios myself and glad I was able to help.

- Ron Ramirez - 01-16-2008

Hi

Just be sure that when you installed new electrolytics, that you COMPLETELY disconnected the old electrolytics from the circuit! Otherwise, the radio is going to eventually fail anyway because of the faulty old electrolytics. And if one of the old ones shorts...it could take out your set's power transformer.

Hey Ron - Guest - 01-17-2008

Thanks for the reply...

I did disconnect the old electrolytics. Being new to both old radios and electronics for that matter, I had some confusion as to where to hook up the (-) and (+) leads on the new caps. TonyJSenior gave me some great advice and it worked! My first restoration.

Thanks again,
Cheers!