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Bel Geddes what? - Printable Version

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Bel Geddes what? - Philco281989 - 07-07-2014

Hey guys, it has been awhile since my last restoration post of that Philco 80 JR I complete about a year ago.

I took a cross country trip yesterday north to Cleveland. Last week someone had a Bel Geddes low boy for sale for a mere $75 on craigslist. I quickly jumped on it. I soon realized several minutes ago when I started to take a detailed look at the set that the chassis is a model 96-A?????????

I also noticed that it is a 25-40 cycle set. My guess would be that this set is from Canada due to the low cycles. But the tag states made in the USA.

Could there be something I am missing here, I could of swore that these later Bel Geddes low boy cabinets had model 112 11 tube superhets inside the cabinets. Oddly this set looks to be original in every aspect except for (2) new condensers by that power resistor. I am kinda baffled and somewhat disappointed that it is not a 112. But a very well preserved original set for sure.

Can anybody confirm that this could of originally happened at the factory. Also how would I be able to tell if this was a USA made set or Canada made set? Ron have you ever seen anything like this before. I can't find to much information on a model 96-A other than the low cycles.

Thanks

Jon

RE: Bel Geddes what? - Jayce - 07-08-2014

That radio had been for sale up there for months. I know, because I was almost tempted a couple times to buy the radio myself. It takes a lot to get me to want to travel up into Cleveland though! Icon_smile

RE: Bel Geddes what? - y2kbruce - 07-08-2014

That's a Bel Geddes cabinet for sure. I once had a 211 cabinet that looked very similar but with an RP and doors but no BG sticker inside it.

RE: Bel Geddes what? - Philco281989 - 07-08-2014

See what is intresting is that this set has a BG sticker in it, the cabinet has somehow been joined with a chassis model 96-A. I could of swore that these specific lowboy cabinets only housed chassis model 112's.

I wonder if they started running out of 96 cabinets from June 1930 and stuck a few 96-A in the new cabinet for June 1930 for the Canadian market.

I just want to know if this combo was possible. All four original chassis washers and all the chassis screws including the bottom shield plate are all in their correct places, this set has not been molested with, unless someone took out the original 112 chassis and put a 96-A in it's place. Possibly done from the factory?

Jon

RE: Bel Geddes what? - Ron Ramirez - 07-08-2014

I seriously doubt that this was done at the Philco factory. After all, in January 1931, the 111 was introduced by Philco, which replaced the 96. Then in June, the 112 superseded the 111.

Now, if that cabinet had a 111 chassis inside, I could believe that it was done at the factory. But not a 96, because of the six-month interval between the end of 96 production and beginning of 112 production, during which time the 111 was on the market.

Those chassis are all the same overall size and have the same shaft spacing, plus they use very similar speakers that can easily substitute for each other, so anyone could have made this switcheroo.

RE: Bel Geddes what? - Philco281989 - 07-08-2014

Thanks for chiming in Ron. I figured someone did a chassis switch a long time ago. I was thinking of trying to find a good original model 112 to stick in this cabinet. My question is about the speaker.

How similar are the speakers between the 96, 111, and 112. Would I need to change anything in the circuit if I were to put a chassis 112 in this set. It appears the speaker connection is the four pin type, and most definaty a Philco with the labeling on the pin connector and speaker assembly. Will the set sound any diffrent depending on which chassis is used? Or are all the speaker values the same for these three chassis. I dont really have a clue when it comes to speakers, still a newbe. I cant seem to find any information on the speakers either, only that the 96-A schematic states: Speaker plug and socket connections (Early models 13,000W, Late models 33,000 W). As you can tell I am still a little lost.

Thanks for the help

Jon

RE: Bel Geddes what? - Arran - 07-10-2014

The model 96 uses push pull #45 tubes, according to the diagrams posted in the schematic section the 111 chassis also uses push-pull 45s, and the early production 112 chassis also use push pull #45s. The model 96 is a 1930 model, actually the top of the line chassis for 1930, the 111 and 112 are both 1931 models, and much like the Philco 90 the earlier production sets used push pull #45s and the late production 112 used push pull #47s.
Regards
Arran

RE: Bel Geddes what? - Philco281989 - 07-10-2014

Great! Thanks Arran. I was looking through my early original Philco schematic book. It would seem all the part numbers match on all three models (96, 111, 112) when it comes to the Output transformer, Input transformer, field coil, voice coil and cone.

I am guessing that means all three chassis shared the same exact speaker and speaker input? Nothing would sound altered nor would I have to change anything in the circuit if I were to slap in a 112 chassis? Would the speaker still be the same on the late production since they switch over to 47's?

Thank you all for your help. I did a safe power up of this 96-A chassis, still all original top to bottom, she plays quite well. Dim bulb tester and variac used of course.

Jon

RE: Bel Geddes what? - Arran - 07-11-2014

I'm not sure about what output transformer was used on the later model 112 chassis with the dual #47s, someone with the Philco parts catalog could tell you what number transformer was compatable with what. Since the late production 112 chassis is likely the rarest of the three versions it is more likely that you would find a 111 or early 112 then a late 112.
Regards
Arran

RE: Bel Geddes what? - Philco281989 - 07-12-2014

I guess I will begin my hunt for an early 112 chassis! Thanks for your help. Is there any way to tell a difference between a early and later production 112 if the tubes are missing from the set?

Thanks

Jon

RE: Bel Geddes what? - Arran - 07-13-2014

Yes, #45s have four pins, #47s have five pins. I'm not sure what the differences were between the 111 chassis and the 112 chassis but both were used in these cabinets. This is one of the Philco consoles that I have been on the look out for, I saw one last month in my region but it was too far away and it was included in a package deal with some other sets. There was also a version with doors and another with a phonograph. Philco made some better sets later on but I always liked that unique mix of what was then considered "modern" styling mixed with oriental styling.
Regards
Arran