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Philco 37-116 toner - Printable Version

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Philco 37-116 toner - 462ron - 09-16-2023

Hi All, well I put this off long enough. I drove 6 hours round trip over 5 years ago for this Philco. I had the chassis done long ago put keep putting off the cabinet refinish because it’s not my favorite thing to do and I have no spray equipment. So I have 2 questions..#1.. anyone know what color toners to use and #2.. is it possible to do a decent job on a big cabinet using rattle cans.
I have it stripped and while using OMS on it, the grain and color really pop on it. So much so that I’m considering just hitting it with sanding sealer and 3 coats of gloss clear lacquer. I did similar on a Majestic I did earlier this year and thought it came out great. I would like to do the base trim and around the top with some color for contrast. Anyone have a guesstimate on how many cans of clear I might need. Thanks for any input..

Ron

               

RE: Philco 37-116 toner - Radioroslyn - 09-17-2023

Would go w/ 2coats of sanding sealer. This will give you some perspective on how it's going to look and what areas need attention before you proceed. Give it a light sand w/400g paper w/a rubber sanding block.
 
Grain fill w/walnut colored filler. This will make the grain standout. If you grain fill over bare wood/veneer it tends to stain the wood but by using the sealer 1st the grain gets filled but the wood doesn't get stained.

Another coat of sealer. The filler leaves it really dull a quick coat of sealer will let you know how it's coming along. Light sand.
Toning. Overall medium walnut or perfect walnut are good. For the base, top, and spk trim ex dark walnut or van Dyk are good.

 Bear in mind over the last 80yrs the toner on this cabinet has faded. I was surprised when I started disassembling my 16B tombstone. Under the dial bezel the panel was almost black vs the rest of it which was a milk chocolate color.  I had thought it was the lighter brown but apparently not. It may look a little darker than your use to but it's probably closer to its original color than you think.

For the clear coat I've been told that most Philco set had a high gloss finish. Personally, I'm not a big fan of high gloss. I think on this set it would look good. As for coats well maybe 5 or 6 depending on how much you like buffing. 

In terms how many cans I have no clue. I know it gotten awful expensive. When I first started buying it it was $5.50 a can now it's abt $11. I'm tempted to buy in qt's or gal's and use my hvlp sprayer. I not sure what the shelf life is for these sorts of products. Would want to have a bunch of projects lined up and ready to go. Maybe next Spring...

462ron - 462ron - 09-17-2023

Thanks Terry. I have no spray equipment at all and don’t foresee me getting anymore consoles. When I applied the mineral spirits to wash off the residue it really popped while wet. I think if it turns out like that I will be happy both because I’m afraid if I try to tone it with rattle cans I might mess it up and also because there is still original color in the wood. I’ve done this method on a Majestic earlier this year and was very pleased with the outcome. I did add toner to the trim work only on that radio and then sanding sealer and 3 coats of semi gloss clear lacquer. Before I stripped the Philco, it had a sort of greenish cast to me, kind of like ginger ale. I’m thinking I will order more sanding sealer, grain filler, clear gloss lacquer and the toner you recommended for the base and top trim! Running out of time here, all finishing work has to be done outside on the deck, the Mrs has no tolerance for fumes! Icon_evil

Ron

RE: Philco 37-116 toner - Radioroslyn - 09-17-2023

On the overall toning of the cabinet, I use a very light coat and built up from there till you get the color you want. It's a whole lot eastier to put it on a little at a time rather than a lot then have to remove it. To my eye the medium walnut has more red in it vs the perfect walnut. It favors the yellow a bit. A little bit goes a long way. Keep some distance from your nozzle to your work. The dark toning isn't to fussy. Just get even coverage and masking. 

Use masking paper rather than newspaper. The solvents in the finishes will leach thru the newspaper and glue the paper to your work. That sucks![Image: https://philcoradio.com/phorum/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif]

Some of this stuff might be old news but there might be some folks that haven't read it before.

RE: Philco 37-116 toner - Ron Ramirez - 09-18-2023

I haven't commented on this subject, as the last time I tried to give advice on Mohawk toners, I got into trouble.

However...

I must jump in here and recommend a great alternative to good ol' Medium Walnut...

and that is...

Mohawk Ultra Classic Dark Walnut.

In spite of the name, it isn't dark. While it still has somewhat of an emphasis on red, it isn't as pronounced as the reddish hue in the Medium Walnut Tone Finish.

I bought a can for the first time recently, and used it on a Philco 54C cabinet. It only needed one coat! It looks very pleasing, IMO. I think it's a great color for Philco sets upon which I have used Medium Walnut in the past.

RE: Philco 37-116 toner - Ron Ramirez - 09-18-2023

In addition:

If you use rattle cans on a cabinet, you really need good nozzles (spray heads). The nozzles which come with Mohawk products produce a conical spray, which is less than ideal for spraying cabinets. It would be well worth the effort to invest in a dozen or more spray nozzles which produce a fan spray - this will allow you to achieve much better results while using less product.

https://www.mohawkproducts.com/product-p/m115-sh.htm

The spray head you want is number M120-0196. Don't buy the large button spray heads - you'll regret it.

These spray heads may be adjusted from vertical to horizontal fan spray by turning the nozzle. The nozzle has a "line" (for want of a better term) in it. When the line is horizontal, the head produces a vertical fan spray. When the nozzle is twisted 90 degrees so the line is vertical, it produces a horizontal fan spray.

462ron - 462ron - 09-19-2023

Hi Ron, thanks for the tip on the Ultra Classic Dark Walnut and the heads up on the nozzle. What is your opinion on me just doing the sanding sealer and either gloss or semi gloss over the cabinet as is. There seems to be plenty of color left in the wood after I stripped it and wetting it down with the mineral spirits, it really brought the color and grain out. Thanks.

Ron

RE: Philco 37-116 toner - Ron Ramirez - 09-19-2023

I would follow Terry's advice. Just use the grain fill, sanding sealers, toners, and clear lacquer finish for the best look. You'll be glad you did.

Terry - by "Perfect Walnut", do you mean Perfect Brown? I find Perfect Brown to be too dark for my liking. But I have found that Ultra Classic Dark Walnut is as close to "perfect" as one can get with most Philco cabinets, without using a compressor, spray gun, and mixing one's own toners.

RE: Philco 37-116 toner - Radioroslyn - 09-19-2023

Yup that what I meant Perfect Brown. To be honest it's been a while since I've used it. I do have several sets that kinda bug me that the accents on the front are more red or cherry looking rather than brown. As I recall that's what I used instead of the Walnut toner. There also is a Pine toner that has a lot of yellow/green tint and tends to neutralize the red when give it a lite coat over the walnut. You never have too many tools/colors in the workshop.

For 27yrs I did color matching when I did leather repair. Colors pretty much had to be on the button. All of this matching has made me critical. Pleasing customers in their homes when they are going back and forth "it's a little too light, dark, pick any color in the rainbow and it's a little too". It can make you crazy!!!!!

462ron - 462ron - 09-20-2023

Ok thanks guys. I have lots to mull over now and just hoping I have enough good weather left for all these spray coats I will be doing. I foresee this running into next Spring but then it’s been 5+ years already waiting for the refinish! Icon_lol

Ron

462ron - 462ron - 10-29-2023

Just a quick update. I received my order from Mohawk and started the refinishing as I already have done the stripping process. I did the sanding sealer first and then the grain filler. Lightly sanded then more sealer. I’m ready to start spraying colored toner but flat ran out of time. This past week the weather was great here but now took a downward turn and since we are heading to November, I pushed the limit. I will probably resume in the Spring unless we get a fluke of decent weather again.BTW, thanks Ron for the suggestion on the spray nozzles, they worked out great. So far using rattle cans isn’t too bad!

Ron

RE: Philco 37-116 toner - radiorich - 10-29-2023

Hello 462ron,
Glad to hear you got your order and I did not know you could order directly from Mohawk thank you for the tip.

Can't wait to see how this set looks when the cabinet is done !!

Sincerely Richard

RE: Philco 37-116 toner - Ron Ramirez - 10-29-2023

Richard,

The "mohawkproducts.com" website isn't really the Mohawk company - it is a reseller named Woodshop Products, a reseller of Mohawk products.

The Mohawk spray lacquer is a bit cheaper at Klingspor's Woodworking, but they do not carry the nozzles.

RE: Philco 37-116 toner - Ron Ramirez - 10-29-2023

462ron - I ran into the same weather (and time) wall here last week. I don't have a heated garage, so no more lacquer spraying this year! It's now too cold.

RE: Philco 37-116 toner - Radioroslyn - 10-29-2023

Obtw with lacquer paints,clears,toners, and others 60/60 is the rule. Above 60 degs in temp and below 60% in humidity. Too low in temp you can get little bubbles  in the finish. Too high of a humidity you can get blushing which is a white haze it the clear finish. Mohawk makes a product called No Blush which will remove the blush most of the time. That's what I learned in Mohawk School...

Wear a mask and have fun!