Philco 38-5 veneer issues, what is this wood? - Printable Version
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Philco 38-5 veneer issues, what is this wood? - TerryMSU - 10-12-2016
First the good news. I only paid $20 for this radio. Electrically it appears untouched. The veneer is all there and the finish is good. The cabinet appears solid. Now the bad news... the veneer is peeling rather badly on both vertical side pillars. How do I get it clamped down and re glued?
RE: Philco 38-5 with veneer issues - TerryMSU - 10-13-2016
(10-12-2016, 10:23 PM)TerryMSU Wrote: First the good news. I only paid $20 for this radio. Electrically it appears untouched. The veneer is all there and the finish is good. The cabinet appears solid. Now the bad news... the veneer is peeling rather badly on both vertical side pillars. How do I get it clamped down and re glued?
RE: Philco 38-5 with veneer issues - klondike98 - 10-13-2016
Welcome to the Phorum!
I'm not the right guy to give you advice on the veneer issues although it looks like the problems are with both loose veneer and missing veneer. For loose veneer on flat sections I've simply used wood glue worked in under the veneer with a syringe and a flat spatula followed by putting wax paper between a board and the loose veneer and then clamping. Curved sections are harder and I have not done any of those but others on here may will surely have some thoughts.
RE: Philco 38-5 with veneer issues - TerryMSU - 10-13-2016
Fortunately I have the missing pieces of veneer. This radio may wait a while since I just realized how bad (brittle) the wiring is on this beast. I need to find a good supplier for vintage wire. I am wondering about pulling the cabinet apart. That would certainly make the gluing job a lot easier.
RE: Philco 38-5 with veneer issues - klondike98 - 10-13-2016
Some sources of cloth covered wire can be found in the Resourcs section:
http://philcoradio.com/phorum/forumdisplay.php?fid=43
and some relatively recent threads have suggested some additional sources such as:
http://philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=14711&highlight=cloth+covered+wire
http://philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=15052&highlight=cloth+covered+wire
http://philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=12753&highlight=cloth+covered+wire
RE: Philco 38-5 veneer issues, disassemble cabinet? - TerryMSU - 10-19-2016
As I look this cabinet over, it appears that it was largely assembled with screws and glue. Is that correct? I am considering trying to disassemble the cabinet to deal with the veneer issues. Am I insane? Your input is gratefully requested. If I do so, I think I can reglue the veneer to the side columns. Has anyone ever tried anything like this? That seems to be the only way I can get a good fit and a good glue job on the veneer.
Thanks,
TerryMSU
RE: Philco 38-5 veneer issues, disassemble cabinet? - Arran - 10-20-2016
I don't know how rare model 38-5s are but it may be worth holding out for another cabinet. You could disassemble the cabinet to repair it, sometimes it is necessary to do that, but it is a long process so it's best to make lots of notes and or take lots of pictures whilst you are dismantling it. I would not even suggest doing this unless it's a rare or valuable model. There is one potential problem that I can see, one of the missing pieces of veneer is broken across the grain on the curved pilaster (side column), on a flat piece like a cabinet side this isn't a big deal but on a curve the veneer is under tension so the two ends might pop up again even after they are glued down, plus the crack will always show. In cases like this it may be easier just to make a parallel joint along the grain and replace that section of the veneer with a longer strip.
Regards
Arran
RE: Philco 38-5 veneer issues, disassemble cabinet? - Ron Ramirez - 10-20-2016
May I make a suggestion?
There is a way to repair all of the peeling veneer.
It will require you to refinish your cabinet afterward, but you were going to do that anyway, right?
...right?
It involves the use of Titebond II wood glue, and an old iron.
Yes, an old iron. The kind you iron fabrics with.
Don't use your wife's (or your) good iron for this! Find a cheap old iron at a yard sale and dedicate it to the purpose.
This will involve some skill and being very careful...and there is a chance that you may end up with the veneer not 100% lined up...but it's definitely worth a try.
Take the Titebond II and apply to the underside of a piece of loose veneer. Apply a little more to the surface of the cabinet where the veneer had peeled away.
Now, while holding the veneer in place where it is supposed to go with one hand, take the old iron (which you pre-heated, right?) and start ironing the veneer. Keep doing this until the veneer stays in place by itself. It will only take a minute or two.
Don't just hold the hot iron in one spot; move it around as you would on a piece of fabric you were ironing to keep from scorching the veneer. Believe it or not, you won't scorch the veneer if you do as I describe.
Once you finish one spot, proceed to another until you have all of the areas repaired.
I learned this trick from John "Hagstar" Hagman. He no longer recommends this, but it has worked for me several times with no long-term ill effects (so far, knocking wood, no pun intended) so I see no reason not to do it.
Just keep in mind that once you use that old iron on veneer, you will no longer be able to use it on good fabrics as the old lacquer will burn off the veneer and deposit itself on the hot surface of the iron, rendering it unfit to use on clothing, grille cloth, etc.
Try it on a small area and see what you think. You have nothing to lose...
RE: Philco 38-5 veneer issues, disassemble cabinet? - TerryMSU - 10-20-2016
Any idea why Mr. Hagman no longer recommends this technique? This technique is on my short list of possible options. I have gone as far as getting a cheap iron from Goodwill. The big concern is in getting the edge to stick down where it is on a inside corner (such as the inside edge of the pilaster where it meets the front panel up higher). That is why I am considering disassembling the cabinet.
My second closeup is one such example.
Having pulled the speaker mount board, I think that disassembly is not going to be required. I can access most of the edges that concerned me. The worst part is that on the left hand side, some of the veneer is almost shredded by the cracks along the grain. I will try to see what I can do with it. I have wet the veneer down with a spray bottle to increase its flexibility and I also think I will tie it all together with masking tape. What have I got to lose?
Thanks,
TerryMSU
RE: Philco 38-5 veneer issues, disassemble cabinet? - Ron Ramirez - 10-20-2016
He had told me but I honestly do not remember what he said. It was at Kutztown last year when we talked about this. If you have ever been to Kutztown and if people know you...you will understand.
As I said, I have no issues with the technique. I used it again while working on my Philco Tropic 42-788 cabinet recently. There was a small area at the right edge of the control panel where the veneer was peeling up (it ended up breaking off). It was in a spot where it could not be clamped. I was able to successfully glue it back in place using my old iron and Titebond II.
Exactly - what do you have to lose?
RE: Philco 38-5 veneer issues, disassemble cabinet? - PhilcoJohn - 10-20-2016
wow Ron I will keep that in mind when its time to do my Westinghouse console. It has only one issue with the cabinet. Where are you able to buy that glue? I have never heard of it before.
RE: Philco 38-5 veneer issues, disassemble cabinet? - Ron Ramirez - 10-20-2016
You should be able to purchase it at any hardware store or home improvement center. I think it's better than Elmer's Carpenters Wood Glue.
RE: Philco 38-5 veneer issues, disassemble cabinet? - TerryMSU - 10-20-2016
Mine may be too far gone for that technique. I tried it on a small section this evening, but the results were less than ideal. BTW, it does really trash any finish that was left on the radio. I think I will post a want to buy in fir a replacement cabinet. It is either that or sell the chassis.
RE: Philco 38-5 veneer issues, disassemble cabinet? - Arran - 10-21-2016
Bob Andersen uses a modified version of this, he applies watered down PVA glue to the veneer and whatever you are gluing it to, then lets them dry first. He then uses a heat gun to heat the bottom of the veneer and what you are gluing it to, and presses them together starting on one end and working his way to the other end. I have not tried it with a heat gun but did with an iron, the problem is that you must apply the iron on top of the veneer to heat the glue, which can dry out the veneer, and make it shrink and split across the grain, which it did with me. Another option is to use contact cement, which works the same way but without the heat, unfortunately you can't easily reposition it once it is down, which you can do with the PVA glue by heating it up again.
This only applies to gluing the veneer down, if it joints in the cabinet are all shaky and loose you may have to dismantle it to repair it.
Regards
Arran
RE: Philco 38-5 veneer issues, disassemble cabinet? - TerryMSU - 10-22-2016
i am now seriously considering either finding a cabinet from a donor or else using peel-and-stick veneer. If I go with veneer, does anyone know what the wood is on the pilasters? I have heard either mahogany or else walnut, from so called experts at the fine woodworking shops.
Thanks,
Terry