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1933 60L Restoration - Printable Version

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1933 60L Restoration - Greggshere - 10-26-2018

Since I just finished my 40-158 yesterday, my next project is the 1933 60L console I picked up a week or two ago. I am putting together my list of possibly needed parts and I'm needing to know what wattage I should go with on the resistors. I did a search and thought I had a link to the Philco Bench on it, but I couldn't get the link to work. Can anyone let me know what wattage I should be using on these in this model Chassis? Thanks!

RE: 60L Resistor Wattages - Phlogiston - 10-27-2018

Since 2W resistors are very small now days, I see no reason not to use them even in 1/4W (original) applications.

P.S. I suppose that I should add - use the 2W for every resistor that was originally 2W or less.

I use the Dale 10W - 20W wire wounds to replace elements of failed voltage dividers, partially because they are relatively small, black and don't look so bad in a rebuild.

RE: 60L Resistor Wattages - Greggshere - 10-27-2018

Thanks for your response and information sir. So I removed the chassis from the cabinet and began checking it out. The obvious things I saw was a tear and hole in the speaker, not a big deal if the coils ohm out, and the missing electrolytic condenser. Someone has obviously been in this and made some changes. The condenser was replaced with two, one on the top and one underneath. Both old repairs based on the cap appearances. I also found a bare wire where the schematic calls out a flexible wire-wound 200 ohm resistor.


 The big wire-wound resistor tests good, and only four of the dog-bone resistors are testing bad, high. I'm going to try and replicate those and watched a u-tube video showing one way to do it. I got Steve's tools for helping to re-stuff the Bakelite condensers and plan to try and keep this looking as vintage stock as possible. I put an ad in the wanted section and hope someone will have a can I can get to re-stuff for the missing one up top.
I also see a cap and resistor that appears to have been added between the oscillator transformer and the 6A7 tube, reason unknown? This brings up a couple of questions from me:
1. when testing the antenna transformer and using my schematic and a post I saw from Ron to Crist, all my tests came back right on the money, except the one from 4 to "top". I'm not sure if "top" means the wire that comes out of the transformer and goes over to the tube top? If so, mine is open.

2. To test the Oscillator Transformer and the two IF Transformers, does anybody have a schematic that shows the pin numbers that relate between the coils? I have the one for the antenna trans. but it is not the same as the other three and it would be great to know vs. chasing the wiring to figure it out.

I'm going to load some photos once I get them sized up.

Thanks!

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - Greggshere - 10-27-2018

Okay, so here are some photos of what I'm working with. Obviously a good cleaning is forthcoming for the outside. The dial indicator is pretty decent, just warped, maybe a heat gun can straighten it? Also the speaker cone looks like it may not be the original with that one tab sticking out?

                   

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - Greggshere - 10-27-2018

And here are a couple showing some changes someone made, beside the Electrolytic cap deal.

The wire vs. resistor on the condenser and the cap and resistor going from the Oscillator coil to the 6A7 tube (kind of a bad picture, but the solder glob going out of frame is where the cap attaches to the brown wire going down to the oscillator coil :

       

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - Radioroslyn - 10-27-2018

> The dial indicator is pretty decent, just warped, maybe a heat gun can straighten it? Also the speaker cone looks like it may not be the original with that one tab sticking out?

Have used a heat gun but be careful keep the heat low and don't get the dial wet.
Seen a number of Philco sets w/ the tab.

> missing electrolytic condenser

If you can't find an original a more modern Twist Lock cap is the same diameter. The base is slightly large but should clear the chassis w/out a problem. Value doesn't matter as your going the restuff it any way. If you get a 2 or 3 section unit you could put both caps in one can. Bare in mind that neither - are connected to the chassis  but go the hv center tap.

<The wire vs. resistor on the condenser 

No it's wired correctly. #8 has two sections that the bare wire is used to connect them in parallel. When restuffing use two .1mfd caps.

>To test the Oscillator Transformer

The simple answer is that most of the time the secondary is the problem. Once you get it ready to power up you can measure the voltage on the screen grid of the 6A7. If it's 0 your coil is open. Generally the IF transformers not a problem.

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - Greggshere - 10-28-2018

Thanks for all the information Terry, yeah I completely overlooked that wire-wound resistor. It is there right in my face and it tested out fine too. Today I cleaned up the tubes, chassis and the tuner on the outside and tested the transformer. Lucky for me it tested out good. Not so lucky, the wires are all VERY brittle and will need replaced. Two are broken right at the transformer paper, so I'm going to have to get back in there just far enough to splice in new wire. I was just going to sleeve it, but the wire has corrosion at the break in the insulation. So far no big show stoppers though! Icon_angel

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - jcassity - 10-31-2018

i cut the transformer cover along the top left and right sides  in three cuts then pushed the metal inward making a vent to let heat out.

i could have drilled a nice pattern of holes on either side as well.

my xfrmr wiring was solid and no breaks but..... the diagrams called out colors and my cotton braiding showed no signs the cotton was ever a different color than brown.  i slipped color coded heat shrink around mine.  your prob better off using an old junk yard auto wiring harness to obtain wire,, all 105degC or more rated and made for putting up with heat.  you will end up with a lifetime supply of wire.

i give these away as christmas gifts ... an example of an easy storage means to lots of wire.
all the wire is spiral dropped into the can and you pull out the amount you want.  i have a much larger can i use , one person i know uses a big old cheese ball container,, you see them at the store sometimes , they are about 2ft tall with a big lid.

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - Greggshere - 10-31-2018

Thank you for the information sir, can I be added to your Christmas list!? ?

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - Greggshere - 11-03-2018

Ok, so  I feel stupid this morning asking this question, but apparently my brain is not working correctly this morning, because I'm not quite grasping what this bulletin is telling me. Since I am going to restuff the bakelite block, and have some .015 y2 safety caps, what exactly is this bulletin telling me to do? Can someone draw me a picture or something? It sounds like they are telling me to just install two in the exact same location in parallel? Sorry for asking a stupid question.

"60 cycle Hum in the Model 60

In some cases it has been found that an excessive 60-cycle hum was being introduced on the Model 60 from the power line. A single .015 by-pass condenser is connected in this chassis from one side of the line to ground. The hum trouble was corrected by connecting a [bakelite block style] twin No. 3793 Condenser (.015 Mfd.) across the line with the center point grounded to the chassis. It was only on certain power lines where this condition existed. In the great majority of cases, the single .015 Mfd. Condenser is entirely satisfactory.

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - klondike98 - 11-03-2018

I think this is what they are suggesting:

[Image: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0xpegmlvsa3bqgf/IMG_0001.jpg?raw=1]

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - Greggshere - 11-03-2018

Thank you sir, I should have realized that since I just did that in my 40-158 a few weeks ago! Duh, brain fade today I guess. Thanks again!

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - Greggshere - 11-04-2018

Gentlemen I have another question tonight< I was in the process of re-stuffing some of the bakelite caps. and came across something confusing, and I'm hoping someone can clear it up for me. Item # 8 on the diagram shows to be a single .18uF cap. There were four leads coming up from inside the condenser body and when I removed the insides, there are two caps in there. See the diagram and description and the photo of the caps that were inside. This is the condenser that has the wire-wound resistor on it, that also has a bare wire going from one end of the resistor back to the center terminal of the condenser. That same center terminal has a wire going back to the condenser bank. I posted a photo of that wire earlier in the post with arrows pointing to it. Anyway, what is the second cap it there and where is it on the schematic. I realize I haven't posted the schematic, but since the 60 is fairly common most of you guys I'm sure have it already. Thank you for any help!- I added the earlier pic.

               

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - morzh - 11-04-2018

This is supposed to be a 4989-Z cap which is two 0.09uF caps, connecting the middle pin and the pin opposite the screw makes it 0.18uF.

RE: 1933 60L Restoration - Greggshere - 11-04-2018

Thanks Mortz, that definitely makes sense and is apparently what I have, but is definitely not the way it is shown on the schematic I have. I also am confused by the bare wire and the lead going into the condenser filter can. Do you have a schematic that shows this better, so I can better understand it?