The PHILCO Phorum
116X Finish - Printable Version

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116X Finish - ipwizard - 03-04-2013

I am going to be starting a project to restore a Philco 116X for a customer. The cabinet has been refinished a couple times even painted white once. As it sits now it has been stripped and cleared with shellack. The owner wants it refinished to original as possible.

Question 1: Was the toner used on the main body of the cabinet Medium Walnut?

Question 2: What toner should be used on the grill bars and trim?

Question 3: What sheen would the original finish have? I was thinking either Semi-Gloss or Satin?!?

Thanks!

RE: 116X Finish - Arran - 03-05-2013

First of all shellac and lacquer don't always mix so I would strip the shellac off and recoat it with sanding sealer. Second the grain must be filled or it will look tacky like an "Antique Mall Special'. Third, the finish an all of these sets was gloss lacquer, which was rubbed out, satin looks wrong and while semi gloss is somewhat close to a rubbed out finish it isn't a durable as gloss. I can't offer advice on what shade of toner to use, it looks like it may be medium dark walnut, the main body maybe light or medium walnut, but if you are planning to use Mohawk tone spray use one out of the 100 series.
Regards
Arran

RE: 116X Finish - ipwizard - 03-05-2013

Thanks Arran,

I am defiantly going to go through all the steps to refinish this cabinet. Much like I did for my 71B.

I am surprised that the cabinet would have been high gloss, I always thought sets came with a semi-gloss. The owner doesn't want a high gloss so I'll probably just go with semi.

Ill post some pics when I get started with it.

RE: 116X Finish - Ron Ramirez - 03-05-2013

1. I would say definitely Medium Walnut overall.

2. For a bit less contrast you might try Perfect Brown (three coats or more) on the trim, speaker grille bars, outer edge of the speaker opening, and bottom trim. If you want a lot of contrast, go with Extra Dark Walnut on the trim, grille bars, etc.

3. Well, those Philco consoles of that period left the factory with a high gloss. I once found an old photograph on eBay showing the interior of a Philco dealer from that time period...no doubt about it, even though the photo was B&W the 116X and other consoles had a high gloss finish.

Arran, as I recall, Keith did a great job with his 71B cabinet. Icon_thumbup Keith, good luck with that 116X!

RE: 116X Finish - Phlogiston - 03-05-2013

Here is how I did one of mine.

I mix my own toners.

Both a bright exposure (notice the reflection of the light switch = Gloss) and a exposure with less flash:

   

   

RE: 116X Finish - Arran - 03-05-2013

Well I'm not recommending spraying it high gloss and just leaving it, use high gloss, let the lacquer cure for a week or more, and then rub it out with pumice and then rottenstone. This will give it a burnished look which is between gloss and semi gloss, it makes it look like the set has a well kept original finish. I could never understand the appeal of a satin finish on an old radio cabinet, it just looks wrong, it's also softer and scratches more easily. I have a G.E K-83 cathedral radio that someone refinished with a satin lacquer, which is scratched and chipped in place for the reasons I mention, and it just does not look right, it also doesn't help that they got the shade of toner wrong.
Regards
Arran

RE: 116X Finish - ipwizard - 03-05-2013

Arran,

On sets I am keeping or for someone that wants the cabinet completely refinished I rub them down with pumice and rottenstone then a couple of coats of wax. I use Mohawk toners, and I have been using Deft finish lacquers. I have several tints of grain fillers I got from Constantin's.

Phlogiston,

You did a great job on that cabinet! Beautiful.

RE: 116X Finish - Phlogiston - 03-05-2013

I have all of the tools to save a little time. The one above was sanded with ~1200 depending on my mood that day, and then power buffed with a 3M compound and finished off with a glaze. A few weeks later I put on some wax. And when I say power buffer, I mean an air tool. When I let off of the trigger I want it to stop - right then!

A buffed gloss finish will be a better reflector than a shiny un-buffed finish, but less shiny. But all is lost if you don't fill the grain.

By the way, shellac is a fine sealer and grain filler. I use it in the summer here when the humidity drops into the teens, and it smells nicer than lacquer too.

RE: 116X Finish - Ron Ramirez - 03-06-2013

Is that "shinny" as in "I Wish I Could Shinny Like My Sister Kate"? No, that's shimmy.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Icon_lol

Phlogiston, great job on that 37-116! Icon_thumbup

RE: 116X Finish - Phlogiston - 03-06-2013

No - - as in shiny spelled wrong.

RE: 116X Finish - Chuck Schwark - 03-06-2013

Shy Knee....

RE: 116X Finish - Ron Ramirez - 03-07-2013

Sorry, Phlogiston, no offense intended.

RE: 116X Finish - Phlogiston - 03-08-2013

Its OK. My new windows 8 computer has spell check for these postings, but it would not have fixed that as it is a word, just the wrong one.

No point in learning to spell now.

RE: 116X Finish - Phlogiston - 03-08-2013

You know, I have a second one of those. Came from a fellow that kept it in a garage. When I got it there was slight crackling on the radius on both sides. I refinished it, including gluing the cracks, but after a few years of drying out in a warm house the cracks not only reappeared but became multiple running the length of the cabinet on both sides and on the waterfall radius on the top. I am reluctant to use it to heat the shop, but I am afraid it is not beyond repair, just beyond the time and effort it would take to replace all of that veneer.

RE: 116X Finish - ipwizard - 03-14-2013

Did you tone the veneer (upside down L's) on either side of the dial, or is it just darker cause of the type of wood it is there?