[Jayce]

I went wandering today to get away from the house and visited a guy in Canton that I know who has all those radios stored in his back room. One radio I looked at and have walked past numerous times was a Midwest console that I originally thought to be postwar. He has two Midwest consoles, but this one although a bit large, always seemed plainer to me. I didn't have my camera, but I think it is a model Z-18 as it is an 18 tube chassis and has the half-round dial along with the push buttons. It uses two 5Y3 rectifiier tubes and four 6V6 tubes as outputs. They look correct and the radio seemed complete, though I only saw the main speaker. Guess there might be a tweeter up under the angled chassis board that I missed. Anyways, if this guy is willing to sell, what would be a fair price? Also, would this be a good alternative to trying to find a Scott? I like the beast and the cabinet looks good on it yet.

[codefox1]

Treat yourself! $100 cash if you can haul it off yourself and you'll be good for the winter. veryone happy.

[Jayce]

The only fly in the ointment is the fact in sold just like it in Pittsburgh on eBay for something like $325 in March. Looked to be in the same condition as the one I am pondering and this guy is avid into eBay. That's always an issue around here, making me wish eBay would close down sometimes!

[Arran]

Perhaps, but that one is in Pittsburgh, you are local, can pick up, and have cash in hand with no listing, final value, or paypal fees. Take any high sale price on Fleabay and take about 20% off, then you have what the seller is actually getting. So take $325, and reduce it by at least 20%, so offer him between $150 and $260 and see what happens.
There is a local guy who has a Loewe Opta Hellas model, it's one of the better ones with around 11 or 12 tubes, and supposedly stereo. The guy had it on craigslist offering for best offer, but that was not what he really wanted, he wanted about $625 for it because he supposedly saw a restored one for sale for $1250. He also said that if he couldn't get that then he would rather keep it (yah right! If you wanted to keep it you would not be posting it on C.L) So I humbly suggested he try contacting whoever the person was with the $1250 one and see if they might be interested in buying another, since it was highly unlikely that he could get anywhere near that for his set around here, no reply as usual.
Try as I may I could not find a single example of his set for sale for anywhere near that much, it was from around 1959-60. I saw a very old ad on Canuck Audio Mart with one for sale for $275, I do not know whether it sold or no but I would guess not. Canuck Audio mart is one of those boutique websites where every other goof thinks his piece of garage sale fodder is rare and valuable audiophool gear, so if that set wasn't priced for $1250 on there it wouldn't be anywhere. The guy changed his listing, he is now asking $500, he will not get it, guaranteed. There is an air base in the area and loads of retired servicemen who guess what? They did a tour of duty at Laar and Baden in Germany during the 1950s and 60s, German sets are not in short supply.

[TA Forbes]

Midwest sets were often referred to as "the poor man's Scott."

I have never owned an earlier Midwest like the one you are looking at, but I do have an early-40s Midwest 181. My impressions are:

1. Construction of chassis was sloppier than many other sets, cheap components, many out of spec. Must be careful when replacing/soldering due to close proximity of other components.

2. Cabinet was solid, unlike what I have heard from others who have re-finished earlier models and reported that Midwest globbed a lot of finish on cabinet to hide shoddy construction.

3. Reception with an external antenna is excellent!! The thing is a flame-thrower. The outstanding reception is the reason I am keeping it, and have a Howard 7-tube FM converter hooked up to it.

4. Sound quality, with the large speaker and small tweeter, is good but for an 18-tube set with 4-6V6 output tubes I expected much more. My Magnavox with the 4-6V6s has much better sound quality.

[Jayce]

Hmmm, ok. TA has tipped me off to the fact that the Midwest I looked at has a 181 chassis in it. So, that helps some and after finding a link on here I found a page describing that model a bit more. So... I am looking at either a model Y cabinet or the organ type cabinet. Now I wish I had taken my camera! Also, I see the tweeter is seated inside the woofer speaker, so that explains why I didn't see the tweeter! Well, I am still pondering it right now. One thing I am wondering is how well it would compare to my 38-116? That might be like apples and oranges, I know.

[Arran]

I found a web page documenting the various Midwest models, perhaps this will help identify what model you are pondering?

http://www.midwestradiomuseum.com/welcome.htm

It's kind of interesting, some of the designs are a bit flashy. My uncle worked on a Midwest chassis for someone once and what he said concurs with what Tom said about the chassis. I think I mentioned in another thread about a Midwest radio-phono combo unit that there were many ways to cut corners on radio construction to keep the price down, apparently the coils and IF transformers were not one of them fortunately. As noted there are also lots of ways to cut corners on the cabinets, but that does not mean they have to be flimsy or crudely built, making the side panels out of cheaper woods like poplar, maple, beech, etc. was a common way to go, I can tell from looking at the front panels that they relied on grain orientation and shading rather then true figuring for the front panels.
In the 1930 and 40s, just like now, there were good manufacturers of capacitors and resistors, and cheap crap makers of the same. Wafer tube sockets were a cost cutting measure, even now wafer sockets are around half the price of molded ones, maybe 1/3 the price of porcelain, but there were different grades of quality even among wafer sockets.
I wouldn't mind getting a Midwest myself, just because I am curious about them from an engineering standpoint. I had heard that they were guilty of tube stuffing their chassis, but then again I have also heard that they didn't. Unlike many I could care less about the pseudo art deco styling, I'm more interested in what's in the back, so I will only get one if the price is right.
Regards
Arran

[TA Forbes]

+1, Arran.

I thought the same about this set, but was curious about them and hence purchased it.

The only 'tube stuffing" here might be the separate oscillator, dual diode second detector, and dual 5Y3 rectifiers.

However, as I stated before, the reception is excellent. Sound quality is not bad, but not in the same league as other "high tube count" sets that I have.

Oh yes, the type of plastic used for the knobs/escutchion on these '40s Midwests does not stand the test of time well, and is usually a bit "droopy."

[Arran]

Given the quad set of power output tubes that many of the big Midwests seem to have they likely needed the pair of 5Y3s to power it all, though perhaps they could have got by with a 5U4. The separate mixer and oscillator tubes was actually a useful feature for shortwave listening, at higher frequencies pentagrid converter tubes tend to get electrically noisy. The dual diode second detector was a common act of tube stuffing in those days, usually paired up with a 6J5, many RCA, G.E, and Canadian Marconi sets did the same. I've also see this trick used in some Strombergs, and in one Northern Electric I serviced, again a useless feature.
In an 8 tube Canadian Sparton set I have, I think a Model 89 from 1938, it uses a 6H6G, an ST style 6H6, something I have never seen before in a radio, most are stubby metal tubes. However both diodes are wired together as a second detector, they didn't even use the second diode for AVC purposes. They used two 6J5s and two 6F6s in the audio output stage, one as first audio, the other as phase inverter, then as was common, they also had a Magic Eye, so in effect its a very loud five tube set.
They could have used a 6Q7 to do the same job in most cases, Rogers sets often used a 6R7M (6R7), like they did in my DeForest Crosley Brahms model. But in the next chassis up the line, the 10 tuber, Rogers used a 75M (6J5) and an 84M (6H6), but they don't do anything that the 6R7 doesn't do. This was obviously a marketing ploy since all of the circuitry they are connected to is identical, right down to resistor values. In case you are wondering about the "M" that means it's a glass tube with a metal spray shield, usually it's just a clone of a regular ST or metal tube sometimes with a different number just to make it sound special.
But as with many Rogers built sets from the 1937-40 period it uses two rectifier tubes, like a 2X3 or a 2Y3, with a single diode in each. The 2X3 is exactly 1/2 of a 5Y3, while the 2Y3 is 1/2 of a 5U4. This may have been for tube stuffing or some engineer's idea of a safety feature since the filaments were wired in series to add up to 5 volts. It's strange because Rogers used type 80s before they came out with these, and used type 80s after they phased them out.
Regards
Arran

[y2kbruce]

My experience: Scott radios are rare. McMurdos are more rare than Scotts. Pre-war Midwests in an original cabinet are even more rare to find than McMurdos.

If you like it, buy it. I sold a similar 1940 Midwest about 6 years ago for $450. It had that gimmicky cardboard organ pipes and an RP but it was a nice sounding radio.