[37silverstreak]

Hey everybody,
I just picked this up off of my local Craigslist! A Zenith 12-S-471 for $150 bucks and It's in beautiful original condition!
Yes! I know, it's a Brand Z set and it has those lovely 6X5 rectifiers! But, it also has the multi colored shutter dial with the tuning eye here are some pics.
[Image: http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q500...ae29be.jpg]
[Image: http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q500...616e00.jpg]
[Image: http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q500...01b4d8.jpg]
[Image: http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q500...32d3b1.jpg]

[jerryhawthorne]

Wow, does that look nice. Great find and a great price.
Jerry

[murf]

Wow,
Awesome find.
Really cheap too.
I have a lot of older Philco's, but still like the looks of the zenith's better.
Most people that buy from me are just shopping for the best looking radio. If it works, that's a plus.
murf

[Arran]

My complaint about brand Zs was never really about the cabinets, it was mostly regarding technical issues, though I think that the ones with the faux wood grain all over them from 1942 are beyond the pale. This example looks like it may have had the power transformer replaced, it looks beefier then the typical brand Z transformer, maybe they dumped the dual 6X5s as well? The 6X5 is fine as long as it's used in the correct application, like with a 70 ma or less, and the correct application is not in a 10 or 12 tube set with a push pull power output stage.
Regards
Arran

[Art Hoch]

Nice find.

[Jayce]

These are nice looking radios. I have been trying to talk a guy out of one of the two he has for the past couple of years.

[Arran]

Jayce, is that the same guy who had some termite infested sets in his porch? If that's the case I think that I would tough it out until you find one on your own.
Regards
Arran

[Jayce]

He only had one damaged set. So far we haven't found any others damaged. Been checking through them all to be sure as he has some rare radios in his collection.

[37silverstreak]

Arran,
You were right on about that power transformer! Looks like the original has been replaced with a Thoradson 24R06U. Whoever replaced it kept the 6X5 tubes but put two high wattage 1K resistors in series with the plate circuits. Don't know why unless it's because the transformer wasn't an exact replacement. Here is a pic.
Kevin
[Image: http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q500...fc225d.jpg]

[murf]

Tell you what,
I have many Philco's and would trade you one for your zenith in a heartbeat.
How about a really nice 37-675 just replaced the electrolitics and a couple tubes.
Has a really nice original finish cabinet and works great.
Just thought I would throw that by you in case you are a Philco nut.
I agree there radio chassis is superior to the zenith, but the zeniths are what people want.
Try to sell a Philco, as compared to a zenith.
THe philco's just don't move.
Anyone care to disagree?
I have multiple Philco's which I would like to sell,but no interest.
murf

[jerryhawthorne]

I can't disagree with you Murf although I only have one of the Z brand an on the cheap really messed up chairside. Most of the cabinets and dials really outshine the Philco's. None the less, I like the Philco's and they are what I have around the house.
Jerry

[37silverstreak]

Personally, I like Philcos and Zeniths about equally for different reasons. I like Philco for technical reasons where I like Zenith much more for their look. Of course everyone has different tastes, but to me after the early thirties, Philco suffers from bland cabinet design. Take the one picture I have posted that shows my Philco 39-55 along with my new Zenith 12S471. the Philco is a wonder of engineering with it's wireless remote control, but appearance wise,( at least to my eye) the cabinet looks like it was an afterthought, a big box! The only reason I bought it was because it had the Mystery Control. The Zenith may be inferior engineering wise to the Philco (especially with the 6X5s and small transformers!!) but it sure does grab your attention!!
Now, this is only my perspective, but I think most people who want an old radio want it more for looks and not sound. There is not too much on the AM band today worth listening to (AM 1420 the Breeze excepted of course, Greg V.!) anyway. Besides almost any properly restored antique radio will blow a modern AM set out of the water soundwise! So in that case the more visually interesting brand is going to be more desireable.
Again, All of this is only my personal take, and that along with 50 cents won't get you much!
Kevin

[Ron Ramirez]

Kevin - congrats on a great catch!

I have to agree, the 1939 Philcos are not much to look at for the most part. Sort of like when GM went to the all angles, "boxy" look in 1977 and not only reduced the size of their full size cars, but removed all of the curves, leaving only angles. Philco did much the same thing with the cabinets in their 1939 model line.

[Arran]

The only reason I can think of for installing the wire would resistors in series with the two legs of the high voltage winding is that the B+ may have been too high, either for the 6X5s to handle or for the rest of the set. I found out the specs online for a Thordarson 24R06U, here they are:
H.V Winding 375-0-375 150 ma D.C
Rectifier winding 5 V at 3A
Filament winding 6.3 V at 4.7 amps
So it looks like you can dump the 6X5s and replace them with a single 5U4/5X4 which is what Commander "Cheapskate" MacDonald should have used in this set in the first place. As I said before many time I have no problems with a 6X5 is they are used properly, like in a 5 or 6 tube table radio, but not in a 10-12 tube console.
Regards
Arran

Correction, you may want to try a 5V4, it can handle more B+ current then a 5Y3/5Y4 but the filament only draws 2 amps instead of 3 amps.