[bojangles837]

Hi guys! new here

So my good friend just bought a Philco cabinet off of FB marketplace for $500 and the guy she bought it from said everything was in full working order. When she got it home, she noticed that the radio and speakers worked but that the record player didn't. (The main reason she bought it was to have a record player). It didn't even have a needle with it so she ordered one and installed it. She said you hear it play through the needle but there's no output through the speakers whatsoever. He also said it was from the 50s but I believe it's a 1966 model if what I read about the model # beginning with P was correct. But at this point, we both do not know what the problem could be and I seek yalls help in trying to solve the issue

I attached the pictures she sent me of the cabinet and the model number from the back. I really just want to make sure she wasn't scammed because the guy who sold it to her is being combatant in his messages after she mentioned the record player wasn't working and didn't even come with a needle 

Thank yall!

[morzh]

She paid...WHAT?

Would your friend consider donating to my newly created charity "Keeping Mike happy" ? In some places you will have trouble giving these out for free....

Heck, I feel for her. And it did not occur to her to at least check it for being in full working order?

Good news is, if the radio (meaning the amp also) works, it is much easier to fix the turntable, especially if it turns, moves and you could hear the needle playing. Likely something stupid.


Oh.....and I have a live Stegosaurus for sale.....5,000 bucks. Fully fuinctional. Will mow yer lawn as a side benefit.

PS. Welcome.

[MrFixr55]

Hi Bojangles,

I may be a little forward, but the price on this piece was rather high. (Actually very high!) She could have gotten (a lot) more for (a lot) less, unless she is attaching a high value to the unit as a piece of furniture. Based on the styling, current draw and the warning that there are no user serviceable parts, this is likely solid state.

Console and "Home Entertainment Centers" by Philco, RCA, Magnavox, etc. were nice but were not the "high end" of HiFi in the same way as units by Fisher, Scott, McIntosh, Pilot, and later, Pioneer, Kenwood, Marantz, Technics, etc. In fact, "component" stereo receivers from the 1970s and 80s, decent loudspeakers, and working Garrard 40B and similar changers or turntables can be had for a (relative) song on the various auction sites. Even these "Home entertainment centers" should be available at a reasonable price

More pictures of the turntable and control panel would be helpful, but this is likely a "Voice of Music" turntable and employs a "ceramic" cartridge. These cartridges can and do go bad over the years.

Voice of Music made their own phonographs, but their main business was making these turntables for just about every major US consumer "entertainment center" or portable phonograph manufacturer such as Philco, Sylvania, Capehart, and, later, Magnavox and RCA in the late 1950s through 1960s before the Garrard and BSR changers became popular.
Quick and dirty trick is to lift the tone arm, and with a jeweler's screwdriver, touch each of the 4 connections to the cartridge. 2 should give a rather loud hum. If so, then the amp and wiring are good, and the cartridge is bad.

Unfortunately, there was no standard mount for ceramic cartridges during this time period, so finding a replacement cartridge may be at issue.

If Philco Experts on the site can't help(and the likely can help a lot), and if the record changer is, in fact a V-M, there is a "Voice of Music" website that may be helpful in obtaining an exact replacement or retrofitting a new cartridge. An alternative is to replace the changer with a Garrard Changer with a magnetic cartridge such as a Shure, Audio Technica or Pickering, but you will need to add a "preamp" for the magnetic cartridge, but performance will be greatly improved.

It appears that the radio has separate pointers and tuning knobs for AM and FM. Look at the mode selector knob for the term "MPX" If not there, and there are 2 tuning knobs, then this is an "AM and FM Stereo" or AM A - FM B receiver. Prior to FM Multiplex Stereo, experimental stereo music programs were broadcast by transmitting one channel on an AM Station and the other channel on an FM Station owned by the same broadcaster. However, Multiplex was rolled out in the early 1960s, so obviously, this is no longer done. If this is a 1966 model, then it should be FM Multiplex Stereo

Hope this helps.

[bojangles837]

Mr. Fixr 55, thank you so much for the response. I cant figure out how to reply directly to you but this should be adequate i hope.

I too agree that she paid way more than its worth but was curious if you had an estimate of what its fair value may be? Shes going to check the wiring to make sure everything is sound to rule that out and then well get to work on determining whether the cartridge is the culprit. 

Im starting to wonder if its even worth trying to fix or if the best option is to get the guy who sold it to her to exchange it back

[Radioroslyn]

Hi and welcome to the Phorum,

I took a quick look at the free sources of manuals but no such luck. Did see a pay to download one. Oh and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2sYVoDr...tvphononut  As for the weak phono I would clean in mode switch. If that didn't do it then the cartridge would be next on the list.

As for the price that's' strictly between buyer and seller. And everybody has to do their homework before the sale. This insures that the seller knows what they are selling and the buying knows what they are buying. Weather it's from 1946, 56, 66, or 76 it's not going to be a plug and play unit unless it's been serviced by a technician not a youtube wantobe.

The turntable can be the budget breaker with the labor to disassemble, reassemble, cleaning, lub, replacement of failing rubber parts, set up, and adjustment.

GL

[morzh]

If this indeed a VOM player, then this is the place to go
https://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/

ANd Gary Stork, the owner, is your guy.

This will have all the docs (not free) and most parts.


I recently (more or less a year ago) restored one. The mechanics is involved but not impossible to understand, even for mechanically challenged guy like myself, as long as the manuals and service guides are carefully studied.

Now as for the best options, if the guy is willing to take it back and give all or most of the money back, I would jump on it. What she paid is obscene and my honest opinion, she was...not scammed, but taken advantage of as an uninformed person.

Then she could shop for a similar unit if desired for a fraction (these should never go for more than $50 and even that on a very good market day; many will give it for free). Then the money can go towards repairs.

[bojangles837]

The guy wont give the money back but I'm trying to convince her to see if H**l take it back for $400
Cause i imagine we arent going to solve this on our own since I'm in a different state. I hate that she spent 3x what its worth and it doesn't even work

I appreciate yalls replies. seriously

[morzh]

If you end up stuck with it, considering she liked that enough to buy it, why don't you try to contact a (the) local antique radio society/club in where she is.
Often time folks (I worked with guys from Alabama ones) take on jobs for very reasonable amounts of money. Especially if it is only the turntable job and the radio unigt works.

Now just for educational purposes: German units of the period, like this one (I have recently finished restoring one of those, exact same finish) do indeed sell for this kind of money, even unrestored. And they sound incredible.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/grundig_ma..._8058.html

Of course restoration is pretty involved.
If she is able to get rid of the monster and finds one of these in fully restored state, this one would justify a splurge. But since she proved to be not very knowledgeable in these, advise her to have someone to consult or assist her with the unit eveluation.

[MrFixr55]

Hi Bojangles,

I, too am Private Message impaired, so thanks for your response in public.

1 or 2 other thoughts that went through my head.

I don't know if the seller was predatory or just actually and honestly believed that this 56 year old unit as worth this much because it survived.

+1 to all comments that these units should go for much cheaper. Maybe if you search the various local Craigslists for all the postings for these or similar units for low prices, free or already at the curb and report this to the seller he may reconsider. Otherwise, if the ad described the unit in working order and it was, in fact, not the case, the platform that the ad was placed may have rules that will either require an exchange / repair / refund or sanction the seller.

I don't share the experts' love for the German sets; most such as my Telefunken Allegra do not have equal amplifiers (one more powerful than the other) and the wiring is just as sloppy as American sets. However, they were all the rage here, possibly because of the many US Servicepersons stationed in Germany in the 50s and 60s bought these at the PX. My idea of fantastic sound was the various Fisher units, either tube or solid state. I got a Fisher 400 and 800c off the street about 25 years ago. In addition, I love the KLH 20 and 24 units

One other possibility is if you are mechanically inclined and your friend was skilled enough to replace the needle, it is not terribly difficult to remove the turntable and send it to you or another mechanically inclined person.

The turntable is removed from the base, not by unscrewing the 2 screws, but reaching from the underside of the base and flipping up the retainer clips at the end of the screws to a vertical position, then lifting out the turntable. It is likely that there are connectors for power and signal, so there should be no need to cut wires. Evaluate the cartridge (use the "Ceramic" or "Aux" input of the amp, it is unlikely that this unit used a magnetic cartridge. (If it did use a magnetic cartridge, it would likely be working)

Hope this helps!