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City: Corrales
State, Province, Country: NM
This problem is intermittent. When it occurs, the receiver is dead below about 1200 kHz. Looking at the cathode of the 37 oscillator with an oscilloscope, I can verify the 260 kHz oscillator output declines to zero at about 1200 on the dial. (A second receiver confirms this.) Thoughts on this? Yes, the receiver had been working well. I’m thinking it’s the oscillator coils, or (gasp) the autodyne circuit? But this is a new problem for me. Thanks.
Richard
Posts: 1,402
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Joined: Oct 2007
City: Linn Creek, MO
Richard, try lowering the cathode resistor from 15K to 10K or even 7500 ohm. If the oscillator still drops out, the oscillator coil form may have moisture. Remove the coil and bake it @ 200 degrees for about 20 minutes.
Steve
M R Radios C M Tubes
Posts: 7,286
Threads: 268
Joined: Dec 2009
City: Roslyn Pa
Hi Richard and welcome,
Moisture wil lower the Q of the coil making it difficult to oscillate. If I was going to the trouble of removing it I would rewind the secondary. It's only about 20 t of 32g wire or so. The phasing (direction) is important.
Terry N3GTE
When my pals were reading comic books
I was down in the basement in my dad's
workshop. Perusing his Sam's Photofoacts
Vol 1-50 admiring the old set and trying to
figure out what all those squiggly meant.
Circa 1966
Now I think I've got!
Terry
Posts: 13
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Joined: Aug 2020
City: Corrales
State, Province, Country: NM
Steve and Terry,
It’s working. I noticed that, by touching the grid cap on the oscillator, it sprang to life. But next time, it was dead until I touched the grid cap again. Rinse, repeat. This struck me as odd, so I paralleled a resistor across the 15k cathode dogbone resistor (which actually measured 12.5K.) The current value of these two resistors is 8.4K. Right now, that oscillator starts up automatically every time I turn the set on. But I’m leaving it on the bench for awhile. Fingers crossed.
I did remove and examine the oscillator coil. I just wanted to see it. It’s fine, as I suspected, because the large oscillator coil showed continuity and 4.3 ohms. The “input” coil From the RF stage in this radio is just a turn of wire...and one end is unterminated. It just floats.
Now, can someone educate me on this cathode resistor...I’m not clear on what I’ve done, or why. Sorry for the ignorance.
And thanks, gents.
Richard
Posts: 13
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Joined: Aug 2020
City: Corrales
State, Province, Country: NM
Oh. I forgot to mention I did not bake the coil form to reduce moisture, since I live in the New Mexico high desert, we are in a terrible drought, and...humidity, what’s that? But I understand how moisture in the form could affect it.
Richard
Posts: 7,286
Threads: 268
Joined: Dec 2009
City: Roslyn Pa
By lowering the value of the cathode resistor is causes the tube to conduct more (raises the gain a bit). This in turn can cause the oscillator to start easier.
When my pals were reading comic books
I was down in the basement in my dad's
workshop. Perusing his Sam's Photofoacts
Vol 1-50 admiring the old set and trying to
figure out what all those squiggly meant.
Circa 1966
Now I think I've got!
Terry
Posts: 13
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2020
City: Corrales
State, Province, Country: NM
I can understand that. Of course. Thank you.
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2020, 10:16 PM by WB5NEN.)
Posts: 13
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2020
City: Corrales
State, Province, Country: NM
This Model 71 is pretty fussy. But also pretty to look at. It appears the oscillator is starting reliably now (thanks again for the help), but I see that injection falls off fairly fast as I tune from the high end to the low end of the band. I can’t say I’ve checked that on other receivers, but I will, going forward, so I can learn. Is this normal? I suspect not.
Richard
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2020, 03:59 PM by WB5NEN.)
Posts: 7,286
Threads: 268
Joined: Dec 2009
City: Roslyn Pa
Haven't check the amplitude of the oscillator on a 71.
I did on an early 16B, Two of the SW bands would die about a mc the low end of the band. Drove me nutz for a while only to find it was a missing resistor in the circuit. I didn't use a very sophisticated system just a modern ham transceiver with a S meter to track the oscillator.
In your case it could very well be a lack of feedback.
When my pals were reading comic books
I was down in the basement in my dad's
workshop. Perusing his Sam's Photofoacts
Vol 1-50 admiring the old set and trying to
figure out what all those squiggly meant.
Circa 1966
Now I think I've got!
Terry
Posts: 1,402
Threads: 70
Joined: Oct 2007
City: Linn Creek, MO
Richard, you could do Ron's "Super 71" modification where he replaced the 36 tube with a 6A7. Look here https://philcoradio.com/phorum/showthrea...t=super+71
Steve
M R Radios C M Tubes
Posts: 13
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2020
City: Corrales
State, Province, Country: NM
Well, the local oscillator has abruptly quit...again. This is a very perplexing problem. I had kept it on the work bench, playing it on and off for several days, and yesterday I slipped it back in the cabinet. My confidence was high that dropping the cathode resistor on the oscillator from 12.5 K to about 8.4 K had finally kept the oscillator going. But it didn’t. It quit again. Should I consider changing the bypass silver mica? It specifies 700 pf, but I have not actually checked it. I believe I will do so.
I do not have a 36 spare tube, but I’m open to ordering one.
I’m not too eager to do a chassis rebuild for a more reliable tube and circuit, but it might be necessary.
I’m trying to understand the feedback circuit in this strange old LO. I know a grid is always out of phase with the plate, but I think the cathode is in phase with the plate. Is that correct? And so, in the schematic, there is a little coil in the cathode circuit below the primary of the first IF. Is that feeding back in phase to the plate to create oscillation? I’m lost.
Thanks.
Richard
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2020, 06:09 PM by WB5NEN.)
Posts: 7,286
Threads: 268
Joined: Dec 2009
City: Roslyn Pa
Part #13 is the oscillator coil and that little coil (feed back winding) is part of it. #20 is the first IF transformer.
When my pals were reading comic books
I was down in the basement in my dad's
workshop. Perusing his Sam's Photofoacts
Vol 1-50 admiring the old set and trying to
figure out what all those squiggly meant.
Circa 1966
Now I think I've got!
Terry
Posts: 988
Threads: 40
Joined: Feb 2015
City: Roseville, MN
Hi Richard. I think the way this one works is that when the tube starts conducting the oscillator primary gets a pulse from the plate circuit which starts the secondary oscillating. This in turn will induce a signal in the secondary of the cathode circuit. This local oscillator signal will then mix with the grid input signal to produce the IF. The oscillator continues to oscillate from capacitor 12 in the plate circuit. Maybe if you haven't changed cap 12 you might try replacing it.
Posts: 7,286
Threads: 268
Joined: Dec 2009
City: Roslyn Pa
12 is the trimmer to adjust the primary of the 1st IF transformer.
When my pals were reading comic books
I was down in the basement in my dad's
workshop. Perusing his Sam's Photofoacts
Vol 1-50 admiring the old set and trying to
figure out what all those squiggly meant.
Circa 1966
Now I think I've got!
Terry
Posts: 13
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2020
City: Corrales
State, Province, Country: NM
Terry,
So that little oscillator coil must be on coil form 13? I’m thinking that little coil might need an additional winding to increase the feedback? Almost like a tickler...
R
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