[ChasL0001]

Hello everyone, my first visit to this forum. 

A friend recently donated this Philco 269 radio to me, in the hope I can get it going and donate it to a living history museum or some other worthy cause.

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/GyHH7uT.png]

I've found various service information for the 269 (chassis?) 444 (model?) but they all refer to it as being a 3 valve + rectifier model. Mine has 4 valves + rectifier.

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/WCBWrq5.png]

All the valves look intact, the radio has been stored in a loft for many years but does show signs of previous repairs.

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/dwTp05p.png]

It would seem the mains transformer has been replaced, the wires are all taped with very old cloth insulating tape and there are several new wires in the chassis - the yellow ones.

So my question is, what model is this? I can't find it in the gallery. The radio appears to have been made in the UK, it has the Perivale label on it.

Also a request, if anyone has a circuit diagram for this 5 valve version, I'd love to get it working.

Thanks Chas.

[GarySP]

Hello Chas. Radiomuseum has information on both sets. The 269 and 444 were basically the same chassis. The 269 had a wood cabinet, and the 444 was a bakelite version. Don't know what to say about the fifth valve in your set. Both sets were represented with four valves. I'm sure others will chime in.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philco_peo...t_269.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philco_peo...t_444.html
Hope this helps. Take care and BE HEALTHY! Gary

[Radioroslyn]

Hi Chas a welcome,

Perhaps we'll have to reverse engineer this to sort it. So let's start w/what tubes does it use? And are the tube sockets riveted down or are they fasten w/screws?

[morzh]

From the photo it looks the sockets are screwed and the front one does not even match the hole.

[MrFixr55]

Hi Chaz, 

You may want to post the tubes used in your radio.  

From Radio Museum, it seems that the set uses some standard USA tubes and one non-US tube.  The 3 Tube + Rectifier models listed in Radio Museum use an 80 rectifier, 6A7 Pentagrid Convertor, 78 remote Cutoff Pentode IF (pretty normal so far) and the wierdo PenDD61 dual diode detector and very high gain pentode output stage tube.

The following link the Vacuum Tube Archive magazine has an article on "Philco and the PenDD61"
V7_3.pdf (vacuumtubearchive.com)

It may be that in a later run they either switched to this circuit from a 5 tube circuit due to patent issues or switched from the 4 tube to the 5 tube circuit.

I will hazard a guess that the 5 tube circuit uses the 80, 6A7, 78 and some sort of dual diode / triode detector / 1st AF tube such as a 75 or 6Q7 and an output tube such as a 41 or 42 or equivalent.  Therefore it may be similar to many 5 tube AC Philco US radios.

I think that the term "People's Radio" may be a little misleading.  This radio, ca 1936, received the then typical "Medium Wave" (equivalent to the US Broadcast Band) and "Long Wave" bands.  This radio may have been called the People's Radio because this radio was much less expensive than radios produced by British companies, and may have been controversial in a manner similar to the Philco 80 Jr. and the ruckus that radio caused in the US market, as the 80 Jr sold for only $14.95 including tubes, as opposed to the RCA loss leader, the R28, which sold for$28.50 before the 80Jr was introduced.  RCA was forced to drop the price of the R28 precipitously to $19.95. During WWII, GB radios were made with only MW band, as LW stations included those from Germany.  

The following discussion is not meant to be political but meant to shed light on radio history and the large difference between this People's Radio and the next, much more controversial, "People's Radio".  If this part of the discussion does not meet our standards of non-partisanship, then I fully agree with the Moderator's deleting it.

Nazi Germany produced a radio known as the "Volksemfanger VE301", translated literally as "People's Radio" which could only receive politically "acceptable" (i.e. "Propaganda") stations.  These radios were bare bones circuitry by the standards of the day, bare bones materials, less expensive than the radios of the day from German manufacturers but possibly more expensive than US radios, especially the Philco 80 Jr. or its successors.  The Volksemfanger was a concept of Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi Propaganda Minister.  The tuning knob on this radio had the head and beak of an eagle.  This, and the advertising of this radio as allowing all of Germany to hear the wisdom (???) of the "Fuhrer" caused the radio to be known as "Goebbel's Snout".

[Arran]

From what I can remember the model 444 "People's Radio" used a special tube/valve called a PenDD61, it was the power output pentode plus the detector and AVC diodes, with a pre war British style base, the rest were North American type tubes. The PENDD61 was a tube only made for the 444 as it used a 6.3 volt heater whereas similar pre war British tubes/valves had 4 volt heaters. https://antiqueradio.org/Philco444.htm
  If your set has five tubes/valves then it could be an A537, V537, or a U527, then again it looks like someone has replaced or added tube sockets/bases as Philco normally mounted them under the chassis with rivets.
Regards
Arran

[ChasL0001]

Hello Chas. Radiomuseum has information on both sets. 

Thanks Gary, lots of good info there.

Perhaps we'll have to reverse engineer this to sort it. So let's start w/what tubes does it use? And are the tube sockets riveted down or are they fasten w/screws?

Yes, that was my thinking Radioroslyn, the VALVE (sorry, I'm a Brit) bases are all screwed onto the chassis.

The Valves are in these positions, as viewed from the rear:-

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/lROG9qb.png]

From Radio Museum, it seems that the set uses some standard USA tubes and one non-US tube.  The 3 Tube + Rectifier models listed in Radio Museum use an 80 rectifier, 6A7 Pentagrid Convertor, 78 remote Cutoff Pentode IF (pretty normal so far) and the wierdo PenDD61 dual diode detector and very high gain pentode output stage tube.

The following link the Vacuum Tube Archive magazine has an article on "Philco and the PenDD61"

Thanks for that info MrFixr55, very interesting, shame the link does not allow saving the PDF. Yes, I figured the valves (sorry tubes) may well be a combination of Brit and US types, something I've not come across before. I might not be able to proceed too far as one valve is loose in it's base and rattles, so without a tester, I'm loath to spend too much time replacing components without knowing if they're good. I do have a working Philips valve radio, that may have the same valves, so might be able to test them in that.

Talking of "Peoples Radio" here in the UK, we had "Utility" radios, cheaper makes for those less fortunate. My first involvement was as a baby, pulling my brother's radio over and grabbing the mains cable, which had been repaired with insulating tape, and grabbing it. I still have the scars, both mental and physical. ;)

BTW, it's Chas not Chaz. Another Brit variant  

From what I can remember the model 444 "People's Radio" used a special tube/valve called a PenDD61 - Arran

Not one in my set. 

[Arran]

It looks like the PENDD61 valve/tube must have failed, so someone replaced it with the EBC33, which is a double diode-triode like a 6Q7, and replaced the power output tube with whatever the other one is (can't find an EL53 is it an EL35?). Someone went through a lot of work to do this as you can use the more common 4 volt version with a dropping resistor for the heater, but maybe they figured adding a 1st audio stage would improve performance? Now if I ended up with one over here where power pentodes with detector AVC diode are non existent, the set would probably have had the 78E replaced with a 6B7 (the alternative being to add SS detector diodes somewhere), and the pentode replaced with either a 6F6/#42 or a #41/6K6 with adaptor. If the cabinet is good I would wait for a parts set with a smashed cabinet, or a parts chassis rather then completely undoing the modifications, or you could redo them to make them better copying the A537 schematic, but the chassis layout looks a little different, which was not a very Philco thing to do.
Regards
Arran

[MrFixr55]

Sorry, Chas.

Re the burns, I broke my first TV at the age of 3.  Between my electrical experiments (My mom was convinced that I caused the great blackout of 1965) and other antics as a kid, the fact that I made it this far is proof of the existence of a benevolent Deity.

Technically, the variants in the language may be American variants, not British (However, reading through a Jaguar manual, years ago, I had to figure out what a bonnet and a boot is, as well as drop head vs fixed head.  I also learned quickly why Lucas was referred to as the Prince of Darkness.

+1 on the other comments on your radio.  Over here, 6A7s, 78s and 80s are very common and cheap on eBay.  Looks like that they put the EBC33 where the PenDD61 went, moved the socket for the rectifier and put the EL53 where the 80 was.  Looks like they subbed the 78 with a 6K7, another common tube, but they likely changed the socket instead of using an adaptor.  The EBC33 has the same pinouts as a 6Q7 or 6R7 but according to "Valve Museum", the 6R7 is the equivalent.  Therefore, this is a real Phranken-Philco, but not from the factory.

How you proceed depends on your goals.  Returning to the original configuration will return the radio to originality but the addition of that triode audio stage likely added better performance.  If you find the original output tube or the one with the 4V heater but want the increased performance of another stage of audio gain, consider putting a 7 pin miniature such as a 6C4 (if detector diodes are not needed) or 6AV6 (if using a 42 or similar output tube) under the chassis.  Another alternative is to replace the 6K7 with a 6F7 which contains a remote cutoff pentode similar to the 78 but has a triode that can be used as a 1st audio amp.  If you get a PenDD61 or equivalent, substituting the 6F7 for the 78 / 6K7 will give you the best of both worlds.  Since the 78 (or 6K7) is under a shield, the mod will not be visible in the assembled radio.  If you are forced to use an output tube without diodes, a solid state diode under a piece of heat shrink or "spaghetti" will solve that problem.

In the US, during the war, no new civilian radios were available.  RCA (and I think GE also) produced a substitution manual that reported direct substitutes or if no direct, the best substitute and what "mod" had to be done.

Hope all of this helps, and again, welcome to the Phorum and to this hobby!

BTW I like your tag.  I recycle my cars and tech products by fixing them and keeping them running. Our 3 cars are a 2000 Ford Explorer (95K miles), a 2003 Ford Taurus (145K miles) and a 1991 Ford Aerostar van (190K miles) (and this is in the rust belt northeast US.  All 3 cars have around town miles as opposed to highway miles.

Hope all of this helps!

[ChasL0001]

Thanks Arran;

If your set has five tubes/valves then it could be an A537, V537, or a U527, then again it looks like someone has replaced or added tube sockets/bases as Philco normally mounted them under the chassis with rivets.

I've looked everywhere on the chassis for a model number, there just the two labels riveted on the metalwork:-

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/fBluqvw.jpeg]

but there is a number "A15001" stamped in the metalwork

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/5aoYLD7.jpeg]

Can't find a
I think you're right, it may well be a heavily modified set, the base at the front is riveted whilst the rest are screwed in.

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/57PurkL.jpeg]


[Image: https://i.imgur.com/PLMem9V.jpeg]

It looks like the PENDD61 valve/tube must have failed, so someone replaced it with the EBC33, which is a double diode-triode like a 6Q7, and replaced the power output tube with whatever the other one is (can't find an EL53 is it an EL35?).

Well taking a closer look, it appears to be an EL33 not 53, the writing on the glass is badly degraded. There's also a smaller number under the Mullard logo, B3G1 if that makes a difference.

Now, given that I can't find any schematics for a FIVE valve model and it looks like it may be a heavily modified FOUR valve version, it's probably beyond my skillset to reverse engineer this back to working condition. A lot of the capacitors (sorry condensers) and resistors are barely readable. So I'm thinking it's time to call it a day. 

Also, the speaker cone is shot.

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/nw9kCVD.png]

So if anyone wants it for spares, and you live in the UK, do please message me.

The bakelite case is good and so is the dial plastic

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/ZJw5nuE.jpeg]

[MrFixr55]

Hi Chas,
Fix it, don't bin it! Don't sell your skills short. One step at a time and like the Home Depot slogan, You can do it! We can help.

The speaker is easily repairable with tissue paper and rubber cement. The rattle in the tube may not be bad. All these tubes are available on eBay (Maybe except for the PenDD61.

Replace the filter caps and power up, preferably on a dim bulb tester. (Let us know if you need help on how to build one.) If it plays, then decide if you want to leave it as is or restore or "resto-mod" (half restore, half modify). If it plays as is, the easiest thing to do is to replace the "caps" (capacitors) one at a time. If it was my set, I would replace the 78 with a 6F7, get 2 solid state diodes, replace the rectifier with an 80, and whatever output tube you can get, be it a PenDD61 or a 42, the set will look original but perform like a 5 Tube job.

Good Luck and keep us posted!

[ChasL0001]

Thanks for this 

Hi Chas,
Fix it, don't bin it! Don't sell your skills short. One step at a time and like the Home Depot slogan, You can do it! We can help.

The speaker is easily repairable with tissue paper and rubber cement. The rattle in the tube may not be bad. All these tubes are available on eBay (Maybe except for the PenDD61.

Replace the filter caps and power up, preferably on a dim bulb tester. (Let us know if you need help on how to build one.) If it plays, then decide if you want to leave it as is or restore or "resto-mod" (half restore, half modify). If it plays as is, the easiest thing to do is to replace the "caps" (capacitors) one at a time. If it was my set, I would replace the 78 with a 6F7, get 2 solid state diodes, replace the rectifier with an 80, and whatever output tube you can get, be it a PenDD61 or a 42, the set will look original but perform like a 5 Tube job.

Good Luck and keep us posted!

OK, the idea is sound except for the fact that this set has been modified with components which I cannot read, so really need a circuit for. I could make a guess but I really don't like doing that. I have a variac and a dim bulb tester so no worries there. The speaker coil is jammed in the magnet as well as the cone torn, so a major rebuild is needed there. 

So, given that this is a major refurb I don't have the time to spend on this, so happy to pass it on to someone who does.

Yes, it goes against my ethos of " Fix it, don't bin it!" but that's why I came here, hoping for the help you've all provided, that help has made me decide it's too much for me this time.

[Radioroslyn]

> So, given that this is a major refurb I don't have the time to spend on this, so happy to pass it on to someone who does. 

If you happen to be planing a trip over to the States near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania I could give it a dandy home and fix it up.   [Image: https://philcoradio.com/phorum/images/sm...n_wave.gif] I was wondering over in the UK is there much LW broadcasting these days? It never was much a thing over here in the US except for some ship to shore and military transmissions most CW.

Cheers

[MrFixr55]

Hi Chas,

I hear you. If you happen to be passing NYC vs Philly, I can give it a good home also.

@ RadioRoslyn, That's a great question. About 15 years ago I bought a Grundig all band pocket radio (with FM Stereo if using phones!) at closeout. I think it is continuous from 150KHz to 30MHz. Since the radio was ca 2000, I must assume that there is still LW activity either in Europe or somewhere else in the world.

As a kid in the 60s, listening at night on various AA5 radios from Huntington LI NY (I have lived in the same area all my life), I always wondered why I sometimes received morse code everywhere on the band. I recently learned through recent study of radio history that until sometime in the 70s, there was still LW commercial and military Morse code communication or some other Morse type signaling. Think it is all gone except the very long wave signaling to submarines.