[WyTex]

Howdy guys -

Are there any Philco radios that contain asbestos?

Thanks,
Paul

[Ron Ramirez]

This is a good question and as such, I split it into its own thread.

Offhand, I can think of several. The 1935 version of the 16RX control unit has asbestos inside the cabinet.

Most if not all of the little Transitone/Philco Transitone models with five tubes crammed onto a tiny chassis have a sheet of asbestos under the chassis.

And there are probably others which I can't think of right now.

[WyTex]

Thanks Ron!

Would that then include the 35' 16x console?  Naturally, I have one and would want to be aware.  

Is the sheet in these cases glued down to the cabinet?  

Paul

[Ron Ramirez]

I used to own the 1935 version of the 16X, and it had no asbestos.

In the sets I have seen that had asbestos, the sheet was generally stapled to the cabinet.

[morzh]

I think when I got two of 40-120 (or 40-125) that I bought for Kirk at Sam's expense , cheap, to get Kirk a speaker, there was asbestos inside.

[Nathan Slingerland]

41-226C ('The Sled') has it.

http://philcoradio.com/gallery2/1941a/#Model_41-226C

[Ron Ramirez]

Back then, they thought they were doing their part to prevent forest fires. Or urban fires.

I've heard of guys replacing the asbestos sheets with that gray high-temp engine gasket material. They made no mention as to how they disposed of the asbestos, however.

[WyTex]

Thanks for the info Ron. Very appreciated.

[Pop Alexandra]

Thanks for sharing! It's good to know that I have to avoid them.
___________________
Alexandra
fire rated recesed lights

[MrFixr55]

The issue of asbestos in consumer products is complicated and controversial. I seem to remember an article somewhere on how to safely remediate the asbestos sheet by painting it, but I can't find it now. By encapsulating the sheet, it can be left in place or removed. However, the paint must also be heat resistant and the application of the paint has to be in a manner that the actual application does not release asbestos fibers. Many state government fact sheets on handling construction where asbestos is encountered state that if the material is in good condition, then just don't disturb it. However, if the asbestos is "friable" (can be crushed into a powder), it is particularly dangerous.

Compared to the amount of asbestos in a building, even a single family home built before the late 1980s, the size of this insulation is likely less than one square foot. However, there is no stated safe level of asbestos exposure.

Asbestos is still out there, in roofing material, older shingles, and may even be still found in vehicle brake shoes, especially those imported from China.

However, this statement is not meant to minimize the danger of handling asbestos. Most diseases caused by asbestos are permanent and some, including mesothelioma are terminal. There are several articles on asbestos, particularly in Wikipedia, and on state websites.

Hope this helps.

[morzh]

Let me just put it this way. Asbestos was used to some point as an open insulation. In anything from the "voltage drop" 3rd wire in some AA5 radios, to clothing irons (as a sheet cover over the heating element, which was a simple Nichrome spiral inside some porcelain beads), to soldering irons, to, as we know, in radios and so on so forth.
I doubt we could state that all those, who used these things, acquired asbestosis.
Or even those who repaired them.

Asbestosis became a serious problem for people, who, before this knowledge became common, worked with asbestos / its removal without protection, over significant periode of time.

Here is the quote from Wikipedia on asbestosis.

"Asbestosis is caused by breathing in asbestos fibers. It requires a relatively large exposure over a long period of time, which typically only occur in those who directly work with asbestos."

Now, this will cause you to have way more prolonged (and still not that dangerous) contact with asbestos, if you decide to remove it or coat it with something, than if you just leave it be in where it was so far.

Also, there were two major asbestos type: chrisotile (white asbestos), which was the main type used in the US (95%) and amphibole (blue and brown asbestos) that is eve more dangeros, as unlike the previous type, it readily creates dust and small particles, and stays in the lungs much longer. This one, at least in Europe, was prohibited for use much earlier.

As it often happens in the free world society, the press, in order to engage readers, started the scare campaign, to the point that a mere looking at an asbestos sheet was deemed dangerous. Kinda like one of our librarian women, who, when she saw floppy diskettes, that someone put next to her own diskettes, screamed that they should be immediately removed, as they might contain viruses, and so could infect her diskettes.

So. One does not need to stick their nose in the old cabinet and keep sniffing the asbestos sheet, and one might wear gloves, and, if so desired, a simple mask, when disassembling and putting back together a radio with an asbestos sheet in it, but one does not have to be paranoid either.

Just to re-iterate, I am not advocating being careless, not using protection and sniffing the wrong stuff; I just try to adhere to common sense practices. And, yes, if it makes one very nervous - sure, use mask, gloves, plastic bag, and get rid of it.

[Arran]

Mike;
What I find interesting about the concerns over potential asbestos content in vintage radios is that seems to be the only potentially hazardous material that anyone speaks of, probably because of scares from the legacy media. One obvious one is the lead and lead oxides that can come from handling solder, there also may be lead based paint used on parts of the chassis and cabinet. I've been handling lead based solder for years, as most on here have, and got into the habit of washing my hands after doing so. At least twice I even had myself tested for lead and came up clean both times.
Allegedly they also used to use cadmium plating on some radio and TV chassis, which is not exactly healthy either, but has anyone confirmed this by testing for it? The reason I ask is that I have had several chassis that oxidized to a dull grey colour, like an early 30s Philco, which leads me to believe that many have been plated with zinc.
Getting back to asbestos, not only did the ones afflicted with lung diseases have a long term exposure to it, but what is often overlooked is that many were also smokers. Naturally the big law firms that advertise on TV pan and obfuscate this, as a contributing factor to lung cancer, because which gave them the cancer, the asbestos, or the three packs a day of Luck Strikes, Players, or Marlboros they smoked over a 30 year period?
Regards
Arran

[morzh]

Arran

yes, led, cadmium plating...when you disassemble an electrolytic cap, there are nice things inside too. Gosh knows what in that electrolyte, which it has at least 1/2oz, one could here it splash.
Tar. Dust of unknown origin. Dead mice.

I simply made it a habit to 1. Not to ingest or drink anything, while in the workshop, along with not touching my nose, mouth and not wiping hands with my T-shirts. 2. After the shop, I will clean hands from un-washable substances with Goop or mineral spirits, 3. Then I will go upstairs and really well wash my hands with soap, so no visible traces of anything be left on my hands, and, in case of handling something that used to have contact with mouse excrements, use IPA on my hands. 4. And, if seeing things like cadmium plating, that turned into that yellow stuff that is no longer bound to the plated surface, wear gloves and wipe it off with some solvent before going any futher, if possible.

It is, despite of how it sounds, not too bad and difficult: one just has to remember, that he is dealing with old, very old technology, when the safety standards were very different, and that was kept in not well-controlled environment. And then use common sense.

[Arran]

Mike;
That was one factor I forgot about, rodent feces and urine, well the urine is less of a health hazard, but very corrosive, the feces can be a bad thing. A friend of mine ended up in bed sick for a month after inhaling dust from dried up rat and racoon feces.
Another one you run into is selenium in dry metal rectifiers, not so much of an issue from handling, but if they short and go up in smoke you had better leave the room and ventilate it for an hour. I find that they often become useless long before they short out anyhow, the voltage output, and current level drops with age.
Regards
Arran

[jrblasde]

This has actually spun into a more interesting discussion. I’m in the early stages of electrical restoration on a 46-480 chassis, and I know there was evidence of mice having lived in the cabinet. How does anyone generally go about cleaning a chassis like this? I gave mine a pretty good coating of Lysol and let it dry. I figure it’s probably safe to handle after that. Heck, it’s sitting in a spare bedroom on a drafting table right now. I plan to replace the capacitors, resistors, and wiring. I also generally install fresh terminal strips and tube sockets. While the chassis is empty I plan to give it a good cleanup. I usually hit them with a wire wheel on my drill.

I use my radios as daily drivers, and so I really want to make sure to overhaul the equipment which is most likely to get brittle or drift from nominal value.