[bill T]

Hi , Does anyone have a photo of a 47-1230 close enough to determine what type of knobs are on it ? I recently picked up this console and most of the units I chose it is not all there.No knobs lifted veneer the usual. I 've looked on line for a couple days without much luck for a decent photo.
Also have ask repo sources if they make a replacement without an answer yet.In fairness it has only been a couple days so maybe an answer is coming yet.
This unit has a phono in it . Mine does not even have a arm on it.I think it is a model d-10a .According to what I read it will have a "dynamic cartridge" in it when I find one.The other cartridge this unit is fit with was a crystal cartridge .So I am thinking this may be a choice when rebuilding.Can anyone give me some general direction or information on this phono section ? I have no experience in this area and want it to work .
Should I put a later model philco phono in it's place rather than try to rebuild this one ? Any help or direction is appreciated !

Thanks !
Bill

[Ron Ramirez]

Hi Bill

I'm currently away from home, so I can't scan the knobs you seek at present. Perhaps someone else will step in and do so...the knobs are unique to 1946-1950-ish models.

There is, or was within the past day or two, a complete changer on eBay that would work well as a replacement for you. As I recall, it had the dynamic reproducer also. The dynamic reproducer can work very well if it has not been tinkered with; their main issue is that owners have tended to force standard steel needles into the reproducer cone, where only a special sapphire stylus is designed to fit, ruining the cone and resulting in distorted sound. If this has happened to one you end up with, try West-Tech or Syl Vanier to get it rebuilt; just be sure and send in the entire head, cover and all; do not attampt to remove the cartridge from the head. Don't ask me how I know...

Incidentally, you may be interested in knowing that Philco's "dynamic reproducer" is a magnetic cartridge.

[Ron Ramirez]

This eBay ad shows the correct knobs you need, even though it is a totally different postwar model.
http://cgi.ebay.com/290038632560

Here's the record changer, comes with a speaker too:
http://cgi.ebay.com/130034689031

It is from a 48-1270 according to the ad, but should fit your set. It ends tomorrow evening and currently has no bids, so go for it and good luck!

[bill T]

Ron , Thanks for the help ! I was actually looking at that changer not knowing the answer you gave me. I will take a swipe at it . Doubt I will
be alone on that . Regardless it won't be the last one.Now I know what to look for at least. The dynamic head actually being a magnetic cartridge is also a great thing to know. I could not find that out on my own. I understand the need to match the right output to be amplified. This player looks like it plugs into a transformer in the base of the console . I would not be surprised if it has taps for both crystal and magnetic cartridges.I will have to check that out.
Also surprised by the knobs you linked me to.I am sure they are right but not the type I expected !
This is my third Philco console . I listen to them and enjoy them . I understand the FM is decent on these units so I am looking forward to that. Tubes also are reasonable $ and another plus to this console . Thanks for getting me going again ! I will see if I can do the same for this set !

Bill

[Ron Ramirez]

Bill T -

(edit) Kindly ignore the previous info I gave you about the knobs - see post below.

Did you get the phonograph :

[bill T]

Ron , I see the knobs and now think they are correct ones . I might try for them as they may be few and far between . I've started disassembling
the set and am cleaning it carefully . I am also working on a small rca 1x51 and a nice old GE kc-66-mc (it think that is right ).It is acutally a Rca chasiss 1933-34 . The philco is my priority and will be first to get work . But I am collecting all parts at once . I may pass on knobs but I know what I am after now so thank you ! On the phono I did win it ! Or should say bought it . Looks to be in great shape . But the seller called me and left a message that there is some unstated damage.I am thinking here we go with this ebay stuff again. When ever I get something for a minimum bid there seems to be a problem. Any way I never got any details on damage and as far as I know it is coming. I looked over the photo's and thought the damage can't be to bad. Like you said the part will work. I check the part number of the transformer the phono plugs in and it is the same for both 47 and 48 models. Obviously the magnetic cartridge 's low output needs a boost .The crystal output must be higher. The motor is the same or close and is basically across 110 vac . Not sure if the slightly high voltage today will cause a speed problem . I will tach it and worry about that when time comes . I will update my post with anything half way notable for others to check out . This is an interesting radio/phono . Don't see any tar filled block caps.And tunning gang is gear driven . Wire insulation looks ok. I will sleeve the higher voltage stuff with shrink. Again thanks for the help . It is nice to have all the right parts !
I let you know how things turn out !

[Ron Ramirez]

Bill T - Hold the phone on the knobs

Now that I have my copy of Furniture History in front of me, I see that I gave you incorrect info on the knobs.

The 47-1230 actually uses the same type of knobs as 1942 Philco models - the small marbleized knobs with a large triangular shape molded into the face of each, made to fit a 1/2 flatted shaft.

That's what I get for trusting my memory.

Glad to hear you acquired the phono, hopefully the damage will not be anything major. Yes, the magnetic cartridge requires a "boost," as did their Beam of Light pickup. The output of a (working) crystal cartridge is higher than that of a magnetic cartridge. 125 or 128 volts will not pose a problem to the phono motor; it is more important that it is seeing 60 cycle (Hz) AC.

The postwar Philcos used wiring under the chassis with improved insulation that does not dry up and flake off, like the rubber did on prewar wiring.

[Poston Drake]

Hi Bill,

With the D-10A record changer, Philco called that an "impedance matching transformer" which was necessary for its magnetic cartridge. The regular D-10 changer, which used a crystal cartridge and was used in several other 1946 and 1947 models, did not require this transformer.

Ron is correct about the knobs, these are fairly common and you should not have any trouble finding original replacements which turn up regularly on eBay and at swap meets. Larry Bordonaro also manufactures excellent quality reproductions of these knobs, which you can see here on his website: http://www.antiqueradioknobs.com/partlistings.html

Unless your 47-1230 has been victim of damage or abuse, you should not have any trouble restoring it. As with any antique radio, all paper and electrolytic capacitors will need replacement and resistors will need to be checked and replaced if significantly out-of-tolerance. You won't have to worry about mica capacitors--most of the capacitors in the 47-1230 in the mmfd range are tubular ceramics, which in my experience are almost always good and should not require replacement. In fact after restoring several of these radios I would not even bother checking them unless trouble is indicated. And as Ron has mentioned, there should be no problem with insulation on the under-chassis wiring.

Also as Ron has mentioned, your record changer uses an induction motor whose speed will not be affected by slight voltage variations. Its proper speed requires 60 cycles-per-second AC current, the same in 1947 as now in 2006.

The biggest problem on the 47-1230 and similar postwar Philco chasses is getting to a couple of paper caps underneath the multi-wafer band switch. But with caution and patience this can be done--usually I loosen the mountings of the bandswitch enough to swing it aside somewhat which makes it a little easier to get to the caps and resistors underneath.

As with all Philco radios with Loctal tubes, pay particular attention to cleaning tube pins and sockets, especially the converter tube. And use a good-quality tuner cleaner to thoroughly clean all contacts of the bandswitch.

Also, be very careful when handling and/or cleaning the chassis, not to damage any of the fine wires of the pushbutton coils which are in a very exposed position above the chassis. Even a slight ding on one of these coils from a sharp instrument can cause damage requiring re-winding or replacement of the coil.

And be sure to NEVER power up the radio without the speaker cord connected.

You mentioned you did not see any tar-filled "bakelite block" capacitors. But in fact there is one, a holdover from the pre-war era--containing the line filter capacitors. This should be restuffed using X-Y AC-rated safety capacitors.

If you run into any particular problems, post them here and I am sure some of us can help.

Poston

[bill T]

Lots of good information ! I posted a reply that touched on most points but do not see it . I must have not saved it or saved it wrong. I appreciate all the information ! Phono is on the way minor damage . Knobs , still confused but will get it .Must go to work , Thanks again. I will see if I can add to this reply later...

[bill T]

Hi, Ron, Poston and all : I am back agian breifly . The knob shafts have a flat spot 1/2 -9/16 " The person who sold me the phono may also send knobs .I tried my knobs from 41-280 and no go .Eventually this will work out .Ron I still think the second set of knobs looks right .But if you had any doubt I will pass on them for now. I still have not seen a decent current photo of this unit. The damage to the phono is just to the changer portion and really sounds like a rubber bushing that has rotted.

On the Caps I looked quick and did not see the black line cap housing of the prewar sets ,although I still could miss it . It figures they are there. There are a couple cans on top .I should have everything on order and the rest in left overs anyway. I noticed the caps buried under the wafer switch ! As suggested that need a little rough ,but is possible. I am sure I will have more questions as I try to get to the phono section working . One thing I did find that is interesting while I cleaned the chasis is this.

Under the 7F8 tube there are four peices of rubber tape between the tube and the chasis. As soon as I saw this I recalled reading about it (maybe here ?) .All I recall is they seem to be there for a purpose . Any Clues ? It is a short locktal tube and right now I do not have the print in front of me. So not sure what it does. Apparently this is on all of these sets ?

Thanks again , I am learning some stuff here !

[49Stude63]

The knobs were used on the 46-1209 also they are the marbarlized with the arrows and used on many other Philcos. On the 4 tape squares if you take them off you may get some problems, I had an issue with a 1209 and once I put the tape square back on the problem was corrected.

[Ron Ramirez]

Bill

As you noticed, the knobs from a 41-280 are too loose on the controls of your set. This is because the 1941 shafts still used a 1/4 flat; it was in 1942 that Philco switched to 1/2 flat shafts. As 49Stude mentioned, the knobs you need look like the 41-280 knobs, but are made for 1/2 flat shafts (1942 and 1946-47).

[bill T]

Hi, I think that nails the knobs . Makes it a little tricky getting the right ones. But I should be able to now . Today good news and bad news .First the good. Phono came in good shape ! With the speaker. Put 110 v to it and spun it ok . Put needle on ten inch record and could hear it play ! So I think I am under way . There are some small and major differences with this unit and the D10A . First is this is a M4 player and does not appear to fit the cabinet. At least it will not pull out.It is and inch or so wider . So it looks like a stationary shelf will have to be made.Another difference from the D10A isthe m4 takes 6.3 vac to unload the changer. Not a big deal . Plugs are different and a small transfomer will need to be added. I think I can make it go . Turntable is clearly built better than the D10A. Maybe I will run it outboard ! Have a good one ......!

[bill T]

As promised I would update .Even if the site is ending it may be a benifit to someone out there . When all is said and done the knobs from radio daze for 1942 philco fix perfectly . $5 each. And they look pretty decent to boot . They can be purchased directly from the person who makes them also , but I can not recall the name . Price there is the same .