[462ron]

As I am new to the antique radio hobby I am curious about
some of the post I've read over several months. It seems like
a lot of people refer to Zenith as brand 'Z' kind of in a derogatory
manner. I always thought Zenith was one of the better brands
When growing up so is this a case of more hype than reality or simply
a matter where some people like Ford and some prefer Chevy? I thought
I would ask here to get responses from from the experts on the phorum
who have experience with multiple brands. Thanks

Ron

[Ron Ramirez]

In a Ford vs. Chevy world, I would call Zenith a Dodge or Plymouth. I've worked on Zenith sets...I've owned a couple...and I can see why people like them so much - those big black dials which hold so much allure, almost to the point of being hypnotic.

As a general rule, when it comes to performance, they aren't as good as a Philco or RCA - in my opinion. They have under-rated power transformers especially in the later prewar models, and they produce a sound that is OK - just OK, nothing fabulous. I've heard a Stratosphere, and I was actually disappointed. The Strat did not sound as good as a Philco 37 or 38-690. Before you say I'm prejudiced in favor of Philco - and, yes, I am to a certain degree - the Strat can't hold a candle to a McMurdo Silver Masterpiece V. But that's like comparing a Plymouth to a Mercedes-Benz.

[462ron]

Thanks for the reply Ron....it sounds like Zenith is more eye candy
rather than having what it takes to be aquality receiver. I just
remember the slogan "the quality goes in before the name goes on"
from their TV days. I would like to find a nice Philco floor model but it amazes me
or should I say baffles me as to all the different models that everyone
seems to have as a favorite. I will keep looking and in the mean time
keep up with all the posts here.

Ron

[Ron Ramirez]

That's it, really - Brand Z is eye candy. Some will disagree, mainly those who have been mesmerized by the black dial. And that's okay, we all have our favorites.

Oh, and I will agree that Zenith was one of the best TV manufacturers in the 1970s and 1980s.

[w4rtc]

Very well put Ron I have only one Zenith, I have had some in the past but did not think they performed as well as A Philco. Zenith never did have a radio that sounded as good as the ole 16B. That's my story and I am sicking to it. LOL
Joe

[Arran]

I started calling Zenith "The Order of the Big Black Dial" or "Brand Z" mostly as a joke. On the alternate radio forum there is thread after thread started about "Brand Z" models and it's so prolific some just refer to the model number and not even the make, which I thought was very presumptuous. Since this is the Philco Phorum I thought we should have a way of discussing them with glorifying the brand even more.
To answer your question, are they overrated?, well it depends on the year. A lot of people think it's a high quality brand because the majority of their experience with Brand Z involved TV sets from the 1960s and 70s like the Chromacolor II, in that era they were well engineered and well above average. However from the mid 30s to the early 1940s Brand Z wasn't really a premium brand, maybe one step better then a Crosley, some models were better then others but the points Ron made are true for most.
They had a reputation of putting style ahead of substance, they would use fancy, sometimes gaudy cabinets and gold paint on the chassis, but do so at the expense of using better power transformers or a better front end design. Eugene MacDonald was fundamentally a used car salesmen first, so his thinking was oriented towards marketing, and marketing has a lot to do with selling an impression, not substance. Even the big black dials that people rave about, the vast majority of those were on painted tin plate, some were on celluloid with white lettering only, but only the high priced models had the reverse painted glass dials.
Prior to the war Zenith didn't really have a presence in Canada unlike G.E, Philco, and RCA, so those brands always had more of a foothold North of the border. Because of this I always tended to look at them more objectively. The appeal seems to be much along the lines of a Catalin radio, nice to look at but it's still just a 5 tube AC/DC in the back.
Regards
Arran

[Electrothaumaturgist]

At the risk of ticking people off here (Haha, I must be on 99% of y'alls' ignore list anyway) I found it much easier to rewire/recap a Zenith ('39 8s463), mainly due to the lugs at the terminals had slots in them making it a breeze to unsolder, and more importantly, to loop the legs through and twist them in with needlenose; made for a nice secure connection before soldering.They seem looser on the Philco. Probably just me, I'm sure.

[BrendaAnnD]

The main thing I like about Zenith chassis, especially the older ones, is the roominess underneath. Makes them extra easy to work on. But that rubber wiring is a pain.

[Ron Ramirez]

Haha, I must be on 99% of y'alls' ignore list anyway

What? Why do you say that? Your opinion is as important, and as valuable, as anyone else's. Seriously. You (and Brenda) raise a good point: some Zenith chassis are quite roomy underneath, plus no bakelite block capacitors to restuff. And the rubber-coated wiring is just as much of a pain in 1939-42 Philcos. But that stuff just makes the repair of these sets more fun, right?

there is thread after thread started about "Brand Z" models and it's so prolific some just refer to the model number and not even the make

I've noticed that, too.

So...why hasn't someone started up a Zenith Forum yet? Or a "Zenith Radio.com" website? (No, I'm not about to get involved with something like that! This website is already too much work for one person.) Just out of curiosity, I looked...someone is sitting on the "zenithradio.com" domain name but is not using it for an actual website.

[Paul Philco322]

So for my 2 cents, Zenith had some sharp designs for cabinets, think the Zephrs and such. I am not completely in love with the 30's sets, eye candy yes. In Zenith I am more fond of postwars, even the 50's and 60's am/fm sets. Many well put together and fairly sensitive. I have some 50's bakelite Z sets am/fms that sound super. Zenith I think had some great stuff later as they hung on as a US manufacturer. I am fond of many models, Philco is a topper for the 30's and some 40's sets. RCA, Strombergs also very nice, good build quality. As I am listening to an RCA 86T6 from 1938 right now and it sounds much richer, better highs, than a lot of Z's, listening to the " Big Bands and Crooners' day we get up here Boston way on Sundays. My RCA sounds better than many 30's era Z's, but everything depends on the listener.

There were soooo many great sounding sets, I think Zenith gets a lot of credit because it was an interesting Company as well. No one wrote a book about Stewart Warner.

Paul

[w4rtc]

All opinions are important, would'nt it be awful to live in a place where there was only one opinion.
Joe

[GarySP]

OK, Ron...speaking as a MOPAR guy myself explain yourself on that "Ford v/s Chevy" comment. I'll take a Plymouth or Dodge muscle car era over either of those inferior brands anytime! (just proving a point about opinions...everyone has one) Take care. Gary
p.s. Zenith needs to thank the Walton show for their popularity now !!!

[Ron Ramirez]

Didn't mean to offend, Gary. Joe is right...all opinions are important.

[TA Forbes]

Besides being the leader of the vast right-wing conspiracy, I also multi-task as spokesman for the Z! anti-anti-defamation league.

And now that I have let that cat out of the bag, since I also serve as chief enforcer of unreasonable behaviour I must now apprehend and prosecute myself whilst simultaneously avoid allowing myself to do so.

BUT.... Zenith made some nice sounding sets, but you have to know what you are looking at. Even some of their smaller sets, like the 8S154, have nice sound for what they are. But part of the reason for this is the adjustable acoustic device affixed to the rear of the speaker.

Conversely, some of their higher tube count sets like the 10S464 and 11S474 have decent sound, but not as good as many other comparable sets from other makes.

Definitely agree that as Z approached 1940 the quality went down. This was especially evident in the selection of a small power transformer and 6X5G combo. You also saw additional tubes needlessly added to a model to increase tube count. This is especially true in the sets that featured dual 6X5 rectifiers, separate oscillator and 1st detector tubes, and/or separate 2d detector/AVC/1stAF tubes, but had only one IF amplification stage.

[morzh]

In the UK icreasing the tuibe cound meant more expense: any UK radio manufacturer had to pay 1 pound per tube to British valve association. And one could not combine more than one full-function electrode structure in one glass envelope, hence the purpose of creation of the pentagrid in the UK.
Sometimes taxation fosters ingenuity. Adding valve count for the sake of valve count would not work well there.