[Geoff]

Yes, I sanded after I grain filled. The grain filler made the entire cabinet look "muddy", even after wiping down with burlap. I should have taken a photo. However, the sanding did not remove any of the grain filler. The surface is pretty smooth.

I've looked at some videos on YouTube and it looks like you do not sand all the way to the wood again after applying sanding sealer. You just scuff sand it and try and make everything nice and smooth. So tonight my plan is to spray the entire cabinet with a couple of coats of sanding sealer. Tomorrow night I will lightly scuff sand it, and then if time permits I'll begin applying the toning lacquer this weekend.

[Geoff]

Did you sand the cabinet after you grain filled? If so, I don't think you should have done that.

I watched a few videos on YouTube and it seems that most of the time they are sanding after grain filling.

[Jamie]

Ok.. there are an unlimited number of ways to do this stuff. It's actually a very forgiving process. I never sand after grain filling, but only because I am nervous about dislodging the filler. I buff the cabinet pretty good with burlap, though.. I'm interested in seeing how easy the toner is to apply over that sanding sealer.

[Geoff]

So am I :-).

I think on the next cabinet I do I will use Crystalac as others have mentioned. The Pore-O-Pac left a "muddy" appearance but from what I have read the Crystalac is clear.

[Jamie]

I've switched to Constantine's. I like it a lot better than the Pore-O-Pac. I tried some Behlen's water based grain filler and hated it. I do not recommend a water based filler at all. It dries fast, and it's hard as a rock. I had a heck of a time removing the excess filler. According to the instructions (and video) you are supposed to allow it to dry anyway, so drying time really isn't the issue. It's the fact that the dried excess is so hard to remove. I sanded on it forever to get it all off. It had a chalky white appearance in the grain too, and I wasn't happy with that.

The Constantine's is good stuff. No complaints. I did have to wait about a month to get it, because it was on backorder.

[Geoff]

Like I had mentioned in my previous posts, I had sprayed the entire cabinet with sanding sealer but then sanded it all the way back down to the wood. After doing some reading and watching a few videos on YouTube it looks like that was a mistake. I should have left some on and just scuff sanded in order to smooth the finish out. So last Friday night I put on a couple of coats of sanding sealer over the entire cabinet. I let it sit over night and then lightly sanded with 320 grit paper. Once that was done I went over it with #000 steel wool (I was out of #0000). The cabinet was as smooth as glass:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.ph...alNumber=2]

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.ph...alNumber=2]

The only problem I am still having is on the face of the cabinet. I still have some areas where the grain is not completely filled:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.ph...alNumber=2]

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.ph...alNumber=2]

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.ph...alNumber=2]

Very frustrating so I decided not to do anything with the cabinet on Sunday. I can leave it the way it is but the problem areas will stand out like a sore thumb after I apply lacquer. My plan right now is to use grain filler again in the problem areas only using a small artists brush to apply it and following the directions on the can. I’ll let it dry overnight, lightly sand with 320, and see how it looks. I will continue this procedure until the grain is completely filled in.

- Geoff

[Jamie]

Some of those little veins of grain will be filled in the lacquer too. It never bothered me to have a little grain showing in certain areas. I want the cabinet to look like wood, with maybe a perfect top and front. I did refinish one where I filled in every single spec of grain and gave it a 100% piano finish. The radio looked more like plastic than wood. It's just a personal choice though.. and I'm just shooting the bull here.

[Geoff]

I was planning on using the grain filler later tonight. Another option I was thinking of was to purchase some brushable sanding sealer at lunch and use a very small artist brush to drip some of it into the remaining areas where the grain is still showing and then sand it down to the same level as the rest of the cabinet (which again, is still covered with sanding sealer).

Of the two options I'm thinking of, which sounds like the best approach?

I'm not going for the piano finish look. Once all the lacquers have been applied I plan on starting with #0000 steel wool, see how it looks, then maybe 2F pumice, see how it looks, and then maybe 4F pumice. I'm looking for a deep looking finsh, but not so shiney that it looks like a glazed doughnut.

- Geoff

[Jamie]

I think either way will work. Make sure you've got a new tack cloth and a plan for cleaning this cabinet, and an extremely clean spray area before you spray any toner. After all the work you've done, you don't want any problems that would have you stripping it again. I'm talking about fisheyes, stray hairs, microscopic pieces of steel wool, runs etc. I think you should ask Eddie Brimer or someone who does this for a living about prep work and spraying technique. If you were just doing the typical refinish, I wouldn't bring it up.. but, you've been working on this for weeks. Stripping it would mean going back to square one. And it does happen.

[Geoff]

Yes, my biggest fear is runs. I'll most likely spray some scrap wood first so I can get a feel for it.

I've read elsewhere that if you get some runs that aren't too bad you may be able to save a restrip by lightly sanding out the run once it dries. Hope I don't need to put that theory to the test.

Thanks for the tips!

- Geoff

[Jamie]

You can't fix a run. You can repair it, but that spot will never match the rest of the radio. You get to chasing it - you sand it, then spray it, and it doesn't match, so you spray more, then the entire spot is darker than the rest of the cabinet, so you spray the area around it... and it never ends.

Don't get a run in the first place. Keep that can back away from that cabinet. It can happen instantly, especially around corners. The dark toners give more problems than the light ones. I don't know why. I've sprayed a cabinet with say, light oak and have no problems. Then, without laying a hand on the cabinet, haven't touched it, haven't moved it.. then I spray a darker toner (like extra dark walnut) over the light color (if the radio has a stripe).. and whammo, fisheyes everywhere. No reason, no rhyme. Or the dark toner gets a run. The dark toners are the ones to be especially careful with. The light ones are like spraying paint.

I'm not trying to scare you, just warn you. You've done so much work on that cabinet. If you hadn't, I wouldn't say anything.. just let you learn on your own..That sanding sealer is gonna make that cabinet slick, so go easy...

[Geoff]

I took a drive down to a local Mohawk distributor at lunch and told them what I wanted to do regarding filling the last remaining spots of grain. The guy at the counter recommended this:

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.ph...alNumber=2]

It has a small applicator brush in the lid. My plan is to drip this into the few remaining areas where the grain is still showing, build it up as needed, and then sand even with the rest of the cabinet. I know it is a gloss lacquer and may be a little more difficult to sand than sanding sealer but I'd rather deal with this than breaking out the grain filler again.

I also bought some Mohawk replacement spray tips. The "Fine" ones. I'm hoping that will limit the flow of the Extra Dark Walnut and, along with proper spray technique, keep the toner from running.

Regarding sanding sealer in general, if it is not the greatest thing to have below your finish coat of lacquer than what purpose does it serve? Why would anyone want to use it?

- Geoff

[Jamie]

Regarding sanding sealer in general, if it is not the greatest thing to have below your finish coat of lacquer than what purpose does it serve? Why would anyone want to use it?

Sanding sealer is good stuff. I think it's original use is for new wood. New wood soaks up stain and lacquer like a sponge. It will stain unevenly, and when sprayed with lacquer, it just soaks it up and leaves a flat, raw look. You have to spray 30 coats to get a hard looking finish, and even then, some spots will be flat looking. So, you seal it first and the problem is solved. You can also use it like you are - as sort of a grain filler, general smoother, and to give your lacquer a consistant base surface.

When I made that new top for the Philco 45, I used sanding sealer before I finished it. If I hadn't, it wouldn't look shiny and finished. I didn't use it on the cabinet though...Old wood that has a patina and has been previously stained and lacquered, it sort of seals itself. There is a certain roughness to raw wood, whether old or new, be it the grain, or grain that has been filled... that gives the lacquer something to bite on, so you are less likely to get a run. Sanding sealer creates a smooth surface, and the smoother and slicker a surface is, the more likely you are to get a run. It's like painting glass. Of course, you will sand the sealer first, which will etch it, so you will be fine... you just need to be extra careful about runs.

I am not a pro, I am learning still... I'm just trying to tell you about my experiences doing this.

[Geoff]

Thanks for the tips Puh-Pow. This is my first cabinet refinish and I've still got a lot to learn. I've already mentally prepared for the Extra Dark Walnut to run. I just really hope it doesn't. Maybe I'll lay the cabinet on its side and do the side that is facing up. Let it dry and then rotate to the other side, let it dry and then finally stand it up and do the top. Then lay it on its back and get the columns.

- Geoff

[Jamie]

You could try that. I've never done it that way. I'm always trying to get a real even covering, and that's hard to do if you stop. I think I would spray very light coats and try to keep it even. I don't want to scare you into paranoia about runs, I just want you to be aware of what you will be dealing with. If you are careful, it won't be a problem. Just remember, you can always add another coat after it dries. The natural tendency is to "just spray a little more"... and there is also the natural tendency to get the can closer to the cabinet when you go around a corner.