The weather is getting nice and I've started working on some cabinets again. I'm using Deft semi-gloss lacquer in a spray can and am having trouble with the physical texture of the finish. It keeps coming out like "orange peel" with little bumps and dimples. Ambient temperature is 60-70F with low humidity. What causes this? I'm working in the garage with the doors closed so I can spray without wind/bugs/etc. I spay, let it dry for a little bit and then open the doors to let it air out.
If I spray just a light coat, it seems to settle on the surface as "droplets." If I spray a somewhat heavier coat, the texture becomes a bit more pronounced. I've cleaned the nozzle with lacquer thinner and let it dry before working. I'm keeping a distance of 8-10 inches from the surface and moving back and forth as I work.
Fisheyes are common in colder weather but for it to be beading up is not a good sign. Someone may have used an endust type product on it which will make any finish you put on it fisheye. Have you tried a good stripper coat or washed it with spirits? I have had this problem and it took many very thin coats of lacquer to build up enough finish that it would not pucker or "Orange peel"
If it is a silicon contamination I dont think there will be a fix.
I don't think this is fish eyes. I'm using clear lacquer on a surface that was 100% stripped with acetone and lacquer thinner. I then applied some grain filler, wiped, let it dry, and a few coats of clear lacquer (this work was done last year before it got too cold). I had some mild orange peel. I sanded a little with 400 grip paper and applied some more. The orange peel came back with the new coat of lacquer. The lacquer isn't beading up, it just isn't "going on" smoothly when I spray. Almost like it isn't flowing nicely. The lacquer came from the local hardware store. Can it be "old" and isn't applying as smoothly as "fresh" lacquer? Both of the cans of lacquer that I'm using came from the same store last year.
If it's just droplets from the nozzle spray, then it's drying before it gets a chance to flow down to a level finish. I always use Mohawk Pre-Cat Clears for this reason. Seems to happen a lot less than with Deft cans. Try spraying a heavier coat and see if it flows out any better. Mohawk makes a product called Blender Flowout and it works great on orange peel. It's basically just lacquer thinner in a spray can.
..or you can try finish sanding it smooth. It's a lot of work, but sometimes it the only way.
Fisheyes are a different story. You'll know it if you ever see one. If it's only happening in one area, it might be fisheyes. Fisheyes can be prevented by using a good coat of sanding sealer prior to spraying any lacquer. The sealer seals off the contamination.
The artist formerly known as Puhpow! 8)
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2014, 03:23 PM by Jamie.)
Have you tried thinning the laquer more so it can atomize easier? I was having a problem like that and it seemed to make a difference by thinning the laquer more. Maybe adjust the rate of flow for the laquer also. Sounds like an adjustment on the sprayer may help. Like they said previously you can sand it smooth and keep sanding with higher and higher grit sandpaper til it is as smooth as you like it to be.
As requested, here is an image. Before this light coat of lacquer from a rattle can, I sanded the previous coat to the proverbial "smoother than a baby's bottom." As this coat was going on, I could immediately see the texture returning. This is very frustrating... Earlier in the week, I was working on restoring the metal frame of a Sonochorde speaker. I ended up sanding the rust from the frame and coating it with this same can of semi-gloss lacquer. I had no problems with the surface texture. I don't get it - what is going on here? The whole surface looks like this.
PuhPow - When/how do you use the Precatalyzed Clear? Do you spray this before you use lacquer, or immediately after the lacquer before it begins to dry?
Pre-Catalyzed Clear is already mixed up and sold in a rattle can. For me, it just seems to cause a lot less problems. It almost never fisheyes, and orange peel is very rare (and when it does happen, it's my fault). I like the Deft nozzles better, but the pre-cat Mohawk lacquer seems to have less issues and is very easy to use.
That's a very good photo, but it's still hard to say what it is without seeing it in real life. I would say that is orange peel on your cabinet. A couple of those larger circles might be very, very minor fisheyes. It could be the lacquer, or it could be from some surface contamination. If it were mine, I'd consider two options - Spray another very heavy coat and let it flow out and see how it dries, or I'd sand it smooth, coat it with some spray sanding sealer and then try to clear it again. Maybe someone else has a better idea? ..I know Steve Davis is an outstanding refinisher, so hopefully he will offer some advice.
The artist formerly known as Puhpow! 8)
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2014, 06:49 PM by Jamie.)
Look like it is contaminated with something. A heavier coat is going to fisheye worse up to the point it is so heavy that you get runs. If you were using spray equipment you would add fisheye reducer. In your situation, I would wait a day or two and recoat and then again, building up enough material that the roughness can be sanded out prior to polishing. If you are using semi-gloss, which is what that looks like, polishing will need to wait for a month or so after the last coat.
This has happened to me a few times when I use a "gloss" as the first coat, I have found that using satin for the first couple of coats as a primer, then using a scuff pad before a heavy or multiple gloss coats usually eliminates the problem. Also when I have used steel wool instead of a scuff pad this has happened, I was told that steel wool is actually oiled to keep from rusting.
Silicon is the major or maybe the only cause of fish eye. Moisture is it's own devil, but that one is ease to avoid.
As said fish eye killer / reducer is a standard adder whenever I sprayed a finish coat with a cup gun. Cheap insurance.
As was also noted steel wool is oiled to prevent rust and if you are finish wiping with a treated cloth you may also be introducing silicon.
Tack rags / cloth from your friendly automotive finish supplier are the best for removing the dust before shooting. A clean slightly damp cloth will also work. If water give it awhile to dry. Lacquer thinner on the cloth is safe.
The old silicon polish used over years on old cabinets can be a major pain to seal in. It can wick deep into the wood fiber, you wipe with lacquer thinner and take the surface contamination off and up wicks more.
Pay attention to Phlogiston's comment on PLENTY of cure time.
I agree with Pushpow that is a good picture and it looks more like orange peal. Since you can't easily thin a rattle can try shooting in a cooler place to allow more flow out time.
I seem to be liking semi gloss finishes a lot more. Less problems going on and they don't show every particle of dust.
I wonder what a bit of pearl -maybe white - would look like. Not at all correct, but might be eye candy.
Tab: Interesting note about steel wool. I used a new sheet of 400 grit paper for this one. I wiped the debris from the surface with a cloth that *could* have had some contamination on it...
PuhPow: I'll get a few cans of the pre-cat and see how things go. I'm curious, though, when you mention orange peel with the pre-cat, you say that it is your fault. So, what have you done that you know causes orange peel to occur?
Phlogiston: I think this is my plan: build up again and smooth out. I'll get it eventually. This is still my "play cabinet" before I get around to working on a nicer one.
Eric, what I meant by my fault?.. it's hard to describe.. there are several ways I have screwed up a finish. Mostly, it's hard to get even coats with a spray can. And my lack of patience has me spraying lacquer on damp days, etc... just silly errors.
My nemesis is extra dark walnut. If the surface isn't prepped to perfection, I get fisheyes, orange peel, runs.. for some reason, the darker the toner, the more susceptible it is to problems (at least for me). My solution is to use lots of sanding sealer, lots of time with a tack rag and spray very light coats with plenty of drying time in between them.
Mostly though, it ends up working out..
The artist formerly known as Puhpow! 8)
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2014, 07:19 PM by Jamie.)
The darker the finish, the easier it is to SEE imperfections. If you want an easy finish, paint it flat white. Also, don't subject the dark toned finish to direct sunlight for at least several days.
Mostly, it's hard to get even coats with a spray can. And my lack of patience has me spraying lacquer on damp days, etc... just silly errors. ![[-]](https://philcoradio.com/phorum/images/bootbb/collapse.png "[-]")
