[Guest]

This is my first post to this forum and I would welcome your help on the following: I purchased a model 60B a few years ago from eBay. It was in good condition, but didn't work. I decided, as a 40th birthday present to myself to have it completely and professionally restored. A friend who has had several radios restored gave me the name of someone and I brought it to him a year ago. After a year, I went to pick it up and it works great. My question is about the appearance of it. When I purchased it, it had a two tone wood front and a darker stained wood on the base. When I picked it up, the cabinet is now one color, which is supposedly the stain used by Philco when the radio first came out. I thought I had read somewhere that these radios were often sold as one color and are now seen as two colors because people have restored them and made that change. However, when I go on the web I see all pictures of the 60b as two toned and this has me concerned. The grill cloth was also replaced and has some slight ripples in it. Should it have been pulled tight or is this normal? I have before and after pictures of it that I'd love to send one of you if someone would like to help either put my mind at ease or help me figure out if I made a mistake having it restored. I have some additional small questions about the appearance as well, but if someone identifies him/herself and would like to look at the pictures, I'll ask you then.

Thanks to anyone willing to take to time to help me out.

[Ron Ramirez]

Hi

Welcome to the Phorum!

Philco cabinets were not originally stained, they were sprayed with tinted lacquer.

Model 60B sets were made in four different cathedral cabinets, and one tombstone. I can only think of one that should be all one color, and that is the very late version (January 1936) 60B. This one is also much plainer than the others.

If you cannot post pictures here, please send them to me (mrphilco AT philcoradio DOT com). I try to discourage hosting pictures via my website, but sometimes I make exceptions if it will help someone out.

Grille cloth should be tight, no wrinkles or ripples.

Let's see those pictures and then those of us here can make a determination of what you have. OK?

[49Stude63]

The grille cloth should be tight, you can possible spritz it with water with the speaker removed to tighten it up. There were two versions shown in Ron's book, one appears monotone and the other is two-tone. If the wood grillework stops about halfway up then it should be two-tone, if the wood grillework is from top to bottom then it would be mono-tone.

[Guest]

Thanks for your comments. Although discouraging, I think I'm going to get some good info here. Unfortunately, if it's possible, I'm not sure how to post pictures here. Ron, I'll email them to you directly and then you can either post them here for others to see or let me know how to do it. I really appreciate your help. This guy who did my restoration has such a good reputation in the area and has done such beautiful work before, I'm having a hard time figuring out why he did what he did here....

[Ron Ramirez]

If it will help, here's a little "Evolution of the Model 60B" that I threw together. All photos show what the original finishes should look like; nearly all of these have their original finishes.

http://www.philcoradio.com/tech/60evol.htm

It should be noted that the 38B was never issued in the 60MB tombstone cabinet.

Note also how the early 1936 (June 1935) set has a larger escutcheon than the 1935 (June 1934) model but are otherwise identical.

Edit: The June 1935 (1936 model) 60B pictured in the link above had an excellent original finish, and this picture really shows the correct colors for this model. Why did I ever sell it?

[PTurney]

Hi,

Interesting post & quite a coincidence for me! I added an early 1936 model 60B to my website early this evening and I spent a while piecing together the progression of model 60 cathedrals from 1933/34 through 36. Then I log on here a short while ago to find this thread!

As indicated on this phorum by Ron (Mr. Philco) a few months ago there is also an early production model of the third cathedral style that used a brass escutcheon as per the first and second styles. I had found one of these at the time and was uncertain as to its originality and so had asked about it on the phorum. Turns out mine has the incorrect knobs and grille cloth, but that can be put right.

I replaced the grille cloth on my early 1936 60B as the original was in poor condition. I sprayed the new cloth with Linit starch using a spritzer and then ironed it out before gluing to the backer board using 3M super 77 multipurpose spray-on adhesive, as per the procedure recommended at http://www.grillecloth.com/

My attempt at explaining the progresion of the model 60 cathedrals is here:- http://www.tuberadioland.com/philco60_late_main.html

Paul

[Ron Ramirez]

Paul - thanks for pointing that out about the early production 1935 (June 1934) 60B. I've revised the photo above accordingly.

Brian has sent me photos of his 60B. You can tell the set has been refinished - not once, but twice!

"Before" shot:

[Image: http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k420/...before.jpg]

Notice that except for the base trim, the coloring is lighter than the original factory colors, as shown in my "Evolution" photo in an earlier post. Also note there is no PHILCO decal, but it has a Bakelite escutcheon - another tipoff that it's been refinished before.

But at least an attempt was made to tone the cabinet to some resemblance of its original look.

Now the "after" photos:

[Image: http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k420/...after1.jpg]

[Image: http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k420/...after2.jpg]

I think these photos speak for themselves.

[Guest]

Thanks for posting the pictures Ron and thanks to others for the comments so far. I was told by the guy who restored this that it had been restored before and that the work wasn't professional, but I was told that the final result would be "museum quality" and we can all see the work on the cabinet is far from that. As for the electrical work, he did a great job. The tuner is exact and reception is very good as well as sound etc. This radio didn't work at all and was in poor shape internally, so as far as that goes I did get what I paid for. Reviewing what I did pay for the restoration, I see that the cabinet gets shipped out to someone else who does that part and of the total amount paid, I only paid $195 for the cabinet work. While not the original color scheme, the refinishing seems to be done very well and any sign of scratches or nicks etc. are gone. I'm just confused as to how someone who does this work for a living and has tons of refinished radios waiting to be picked up etc. could miss something like this on what seems to be a fairly common radio. I'm going to go email the guy who had the work done and enquire, stating my "confustion" and will let you know if I get an answer. Unfotunately he's 65 miles away. I paid less than $100 for it on eBay, so I'm assuming I'll now just have a working antique radio that, to the untrained eye, is very nice looking. Could someone give me an idea of the year based on the escutcheon? I'm having a hard time telling if it's the larger or smaller one. The numbers for both bands seem to be about the same size, but that's still hard to tell as well.

Thansk again!

[Ron Ramirez]

Brian - your 60B is the July 1934 (1935 season) style.

[49Stude63]

Brain it is a very nice looking cabinet, free of any boogers that I can see. It does look like he tried to match it to the last version in 1936 instead of the version that it really is. I tend to like contrasting lacquer finishes rather than mono-tone but I am not sure it would be worth the effort to do it over again to make it correct.

[Guest]

Thanks for all the comments on this. In response to the last comment, yes, the quality of the cabinet work is very good. There were scratches and nicks that are nearly undetectable now and the finish is as perfect as anything I could compare it too. I guess the error is in the model year they tried to match. The restorer claims they refinish matching Philco colors, so if the tone is the same as the 1936 (these photos probably don't show it well) then I probably have a fairly unique product; a July 1934 radio (based on escutcheon and dial) with a 1936 color scheme. Oh well...at least it sounds great.

[Doug Houston]

I've refinished quite a few cabinets in my collection. I've given presentations on how to do it as well. Since the materials are to be had, even correct grille cloth patterns, I'm pretty crusty about "restorers" who "professionally" restore cabinets. Thete are extremely few who know how, or even care to do the job as original.

I have several cars, and have done my own restoring. Friends who have lots of cash available, love to boast that they "sent out" something for rebuild, and end up with junk. They assume that if somebody is in business to do a srvice, they're competent and conscientious.....two very poor assumptions.

Surely, the "restorer" who did this cabinet is a stripper-stainer-varnish slobberer. It's pathetic, the job they do, and the owner usually doesn't know better. Let's hope that this set can somehow be returned to its original condition. Those sets are kind of cute.

[49Stude63]

Braint when you get a chance you can take on this radio and bring it back to it's original look, you may pick up some old cheapie wood table models off ebay and get your feet wet by following advice from people on this site. If you click on my link you will see some radios that I have refinished, look at the Truetone that is painted red and at the after pictures, I am to the sanding laquer stage but you can see how dramatic the improvement is. Also by using these type of radios as your learning radios you find things or steps that you might be doing incorrectly so that next time you don't do the same mistake twice. On my 38-2 cabinet I researched as best I could and looked at pictures of 38-2 and some line drawings and tried to make the most correct decisions that I could. It may not be 100% correct but I did pattern it after some documentation that I found and it looks like some models of that era. When you work with these low dollar tables you are also saving a nice old radio and learning in the process. I picked the truetones up for under 20 each, and they help me not only in the cabinet restoration but also in the chassis restoration. By the way, Mr. Houston has some extremely nice radios, and some extremely rare ones so for him to see a nice old radio done incorrectly I am sure it leaves a bitter taste.

[Guest]

Thank you all for the comments on this post. Feel free to add more if you wish, but this phorum has been great to help me realize how maybe I should have handled the refurbishment of my radio, as well as whettiing my appetite to learn more about these great radios and how I can (and should) learn to do some of this myself. I plan to tackle the grille cloth and alignment of the dial when I read more of this phorum and gain some confidence in diving into the back without damaging anything. Unfortunately, on this one, I think I'll leave well enough alone on the cabinet despite it's lack of authenticity. I'm fortunate here in Boston that we have an AM radio station that plays music from around the time these radios were in their heyday and it's great to hear on something that, mechanically, seems to be working great. Thanks again. Brian

[PTurney]

Brian:

Which station do you listen to? We're about 10mi north of Boston & listen to WJIB 740 on AM that plays the old songs most of the day & night. Sadly, it's about the only one left. Even my 13 year old son likes to listen (in between his RAP listening sessions) and has come to know and like many of the oldies.

Paul