[Chris h]

I am starting on my Model 16B all over again.  I have been through it before, but it was several years ago, and before I discovered this site.  Most of the bakelite blocks are there, but need to be restuffed, and I need to restuff the cans as well.  I have ordered the schematic set from Chuck, so hopefully that will be arriving soon.  There are no markings indicating a code number anywhere on the tube chart or chassis.  There is a number stamped into the chassis: Z54009, which I am assuming is a serial number.  There is a date stamped inside the cabinet: April 34.  Everything appears to be there except for 3 of the round tube shields.  

It does play, so at least it is working, but the large rectangular can is still in circuit and needs to be restuffed. I have not done one of these before, so don't know what to expect here.  I have done the can on the Model 95, and am thinking it may be similar.  

I do need to replace the dial scale.  The old one is so dark that the light does not show thru it, and it is broken in several places.  The dial scale is secured by 7 small rivets, and I am wondering what methods of reattachment you all have used.  They are small hollow rivets, similar to a pop rivet, but look smaller than a pop rivet.  I am thinking that small screws and nuts may cause problems.

I am open to suggestions and any other possible pit falls that may lie ahead.  Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom from this group.

[Nathan Slingerland]

Hi Chris,

That's great that you're starting with a working set. If you've been through it before I assume you've replaced the electrolytics?

A replacement dial is available from Radio Daze. Your cathedral would be a Code 121 chassis - 5 bands.
http://www.radiodaze.com/philco-16-16b-1...m-ds-a357/

Not sure why but there are apparently two versions for the 16B with slightly different markings:
http://www.radiodaze.com/philco-16l-27-5011/

Obviously you want the one that matches your original dial.

For mounting the dial use #4-40 or #2-56 machine screws + nuts. I don't remember the length off hand.

Restuffing the large can is not difficult. Unsolder everything from the lugs, marking where they go. Unscrew the screws holding it on the chassis. Unsolder the wire that goes from the inside of the cap to the top part of the can and it should pull apart. I have used a heat gun to loosen the contents from the outer tin casing if it doesn't come off easily.

[morzh]

I found the rectangular can in 16, though very similar to the one in 20, empties much easier.
Warning: the black tar creates small particles that stick to the soles and then create smudges all over the floor. Try to empty the can in a large box, clean well and vacuum the place where you workef.

[Chris h]

Thanks Nathan and morzh for your replies. I have replaced the electrolytics, under chassis, but will restuff with fresh. I think they are 8 mfd, but will wait until I get the schematic package before I order.

It looked like there wasn't enough clearance for screws and nuts on the dial, but will see once I get it apart.  I found the two dials at Radiodaze. Apparently they had two, with the difference on band 4. I ordered the part matching the dial that I have.

I have dealt with the tar filled cans before, and think I'll do it out in the yard, this time. As you say morzh, it does make a mess.

Thanks for the help.

[Chris h]

I received the new dial, from Radio Daze, this week. The quality looks great! Good color match and translucency. I am really satisfied with it. I have not mounted it yet, but looking at the rivets, it looks like an 1/8" pop rivet is just a little too large in diameter.  A #4-40 screw looks about right.  I won't be mounting it until after finishing up the chassis work.

Speaking of the chassis, it is very dirty/dusty, no rust, but almost black. I usually do not do more than dust removal. (After all it is over 80 years old! And should look like it.) But in this case I think I would like to clean it up a little better.  It seems as if I have read, somewhere, about using a bathroom cleaner, like Scrubbing Bubbles, for cleaning up the chassis. Any comments on using something like this, or anything else?  I have not decided yet about removing the coil cans to clean them up.  I know that Simple Green and the ultrasonic cleaner did a great job on the aluminum cans.

The bottom side of the chassis is a real mess! The last guy in there was a real hack! He cut the terminal tabs off the Bakelite blocks when they did a half a** job of recapping! He just let them float. Thanks to VntgRads and Nathan for their under side photos. It really helps to identify what should be there.  Thanks to Chuck Schwark for providing a READABLE schematic!  His copies are much better than the others I have found. Otherwise, I was just guessing.  

I am going thru the Bakelite restuffing now. I am pulling them, removing the old cap, and throwing them in the ultrasonic cleaner with heat and Simple Green. It removes the last traces of tar/wax potting and provides clean terminals for resoldering. It takes a while, but worth the effort.

[morzh]

A 16 is quite a bit of work, especially if it has been hacked, as you said it is, but then this is not the most inconvenient of the chassis to work on.

In my experience the black grime is tackled well by things as simple as Windex. if you want it sparkling (I never do that) then sure, strip it etc and clean, but .... why remove good 80-y.o. patina? Looks unnatural, probably never was that shiny when left the assembly line. To me clean enough is good enough.
US cleaning backelites is a bit excessive most of us spent no more than 10 minutes per cap and in most cases it remains clean as with gentle heating the tar falls out with very little left behind, except with those used after 1937 when they started flooding the eyelets, but then if you have desire and the patience....sure.

Pay attention to the power cord connection - 16 uses a shielded cord of some sort as the volume circuit is sensitive and will pick up noise.
Also see if the volume circuit has been hacked - there were several mods to it, with increased pot value, serial cap and bypass resistor. If your pot is bad - Mark Oppat has the replacements.

[Chris h]

Hi morzh,
I have never been one to clean up a chassis so it shines. Like you say, it should look 80+ years old. I try the window cleaner and see how it does. That is what I have used in the past. My clean up of the bakelites is, admittedly, probably excessive, but I don't mind doing it. The solder connections are very clean and shinny when finished, and that is my main goal.

I saw the wire lead going to the power switch, and thought it might be shielded. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. It appears to be in good shape, so will leave it alone. The volume pot is original, and so far, with a little Deoxit applied directly to the carbon track, it has quieted down quite a bit. So far, the audio circuit appears to be stock, but haven't gotten through it all yet. I will just have to see how long that lasts.

Thanks for the words of wisdom. I have been following most of your work and appreciate the advise.

[Stall-U-Rated]

Hope this is ok to post here:

I too have a 16b (avatar pic) i am about to do a first time capacitor overhaul to. Has a master capacitor list been made available for this model so i can begin ordering the needed values for this radio?

Thanks..

[Chris h]

I am not aware of one. I usually just obtain a parts list and compile one from there. I obtained a schematic package from Chuck Schwark. They are excellent quality and include the parts list, parts locator, and alignment information along with a schematic you can read!

Good luck and have fun!

[morzh]

I go by the sch. There is also the full parts list. There is also Chuck Schwark with his well-readable schematics with values on them.

PS. The 16B on the avatar looks a bit ... blondish. Has it been stripped or re-finished?

[Stall-U-Rated]

As i search for information about this radio,  i did notice the cabinet was a bit lighter than those online. I first saw this as a decoration in a local diner here in town. I was remarking to my gal "Its too bad someone mutilated the speaker while it was on display."  About a year later, i spotted this radio at a yard sale for $25  one town away. I have no idea if it was sun bleached or refinished. So far, with the rectifier pulled, everything lights up, and the VERY FEW seconds the rect was in, i got a hum from whats left of the speaker. No more power will it see till it gets re-capped...

 So, where to i find Chuck for a schematic?

[morzh]

Well....here.

http://www.philcorepairbench.com/schematics/

As an extra insurance, write Chuck a letter when having placed the order.

Meantime, here

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/303/T0000303.htm

you will find less readable but somewhat usable sch. Pick your Code number from all the 16s that are there.

PS. Any 16 bought for $25 cannot be beat. The only one that beats it is my 16X that was given to me for free.

[Stall-U-Rated]

Thanks morzh for the links..

Yeah nothing beats a free radio..

I have visited these sites before. In fact, i was really tempted by the philco bench schematics,and with the rave revues ive heard here, im even more sold. I even left the same capacitor question in the contact area and havent heard back yet. Over a week ago and no reply yet. Wonder if my messages got through.. As soon as i hear back from him ill place my order

Thanks to all for the prompt and helpful responses..

[Chris h]

Well, I finally worked my way down to the filter block, mounted at the back of the chassis. With the help of a heat gun and a drywall screw I was able to remove the insides using a Stanley Wonder Bar. The tin plating on the outside was gone, replaced with a light coating of surface rust.  I hit the outside with the bead blaster and removed the rust. Then painted it with metallic paint. It is not as good as the plating, but close.

I started cleaning the chassis, a little, with a combination of brushes, the vacuum, and some Krud Kutter.  There is a mixture of nicotine, dust, grease, and a black film, over most of it. It won't look like new. Maybe like it is just 80+ years old, with the normal wear one might expect for something of this age. I am not quite sure what the black coating might be. Perhaps soot from an oil fired furnace? Who knows???

I am debating pulling the tuning cap and running it thru the ultrasonic cleaner. I just haven't gotten that far yet.

[morzh]

Many radios I worked on have the black film over the chassis. But only on the top part, never inside. Insides are almost always clean, with an occasional dead-for-80-years spider. Maybe it committed suicide listening to some station it did not like - always looks like it hanged itself on its own cobweb filament.

Windex seems to work on it.