[happyphantom]

First of all, I'm a radio virgin, so be gentle I recently aquired a philco 47-1227 and I REALLY want to get it up and running. When I got it, I noticed a broken 6ba6 tube and replaced it. I was then able to pick up AM stations only but they were very faint, barely audible, super-quiet on max volume...and there was a rather loud humming/buzzing. It was then I noticed that the 6ag5 tube was missing, so I replaced that. It played the same--AM only, quiet, buzzy. Briefly. Now it won't do anything but hum at me. Now what? lol Any help will be appreciated.

[Marsupial]

hello happyphantom, I too am new to the antique radio restoration.

I recently (as recent as two weeks ago) acquired a 47-1230, the sister radio to your 47-1227. We both will have similar restoration to do, it seems.

Here's a link to my first post on this forum.
http://www.philcoradio.com/phorum/showth...p?tid=3110

What I have learned in the little time I since I started this endeavour, is this:

DO NOT POWER ON YOUR RADIO UNTIL IT HAS UNDERGONE ESSENTIAL SAFETY RESTORATION!
you never know what happenned to this radio in its 60+years of life.

Electricity in the 40s isn't the same as electricity now, and old electronic components might no longer be good, particularly capacitors, particularly electrolytics, used where power enters in your radio.
In the 40s, there was no fuse, no ground, power outlets were not polarized. That adds to the danger that can occur when anything shorts because of age.

Both you and I were lucky and have working AM, non-fried, working chassis. But powering the cabinet might become hasardous.

In mine, there was dead rodden, here's what they did to my capacitors:
[Image: http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/...0_9004.jpg]

So... I strongly suggest you unplug your radio, get schematics, order capacitors, and change them before your chassis become a fire hasard.

I know how you feel - you want to have this radio working and are glad of your purchase. It is how I felt when I got mine running the first time. I didn't think of old caps and dead mice, I was thinking "tubes works, cool!"
If you want it working, safely, for a long time... you should really make sure to reduce potential hazards and make it safe.

I am still waiting from replacement capacitors from RadioDaze (couldn't find suitable replacement from local suppliers) but in the meanwhile am working on cleaning the chassis, and replaced the power cord (for a grounded one with added fuse)

Just saying that to try to be useful.

Can you post pictures of your 47-1227?

[Marsupial]

We should have read this before pluging the radio the first time:
http://www.philcoradio.com/tech/plugin.htm
http://www.antiqueradio.org/powerup.htm

you can download free schematics for the 47-1227 on nostalgia air (quality is acceptable, but its free. I am looking for a better quality schematics for my 47-1230)
http://www.nostalgiaair.org/resources/605/M0013605.htm

here's an article on changing / replacing the capacitors. Helped me when I had to find replacements.
http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

Hope this helps.

The humming/buzzing might be due to a short. I'd really start by the basics and replace the electrolytics caps before trying to get stations running.

[happyphantom]

After combing through the forums last night, I had the feeling that I would be getting my father to teach me how to solder in order to recap it. Should I just order electrolytics to start with or plan on changing the paper caps as well? (I'm assuming it has paper caps, too...I downloaded the schematics late last night and have not thoroughly read through them.) I had been leary of plugging it in to try out the new tubes, but now I'm definitely keeping it unplugged until I can work on it.

Thanks for the advice, I'm sure I'll need all the help I can get, but I'm looking forward to my project!

Here are the pics you requested.

[Marsupial]

The chassis looks a lot like mine on the 47-1230.

You should try to look inside the chassis, just to see if there's any bad surprises. But I think you're up to a good start. hey it looks brand new, was it refinished or something?

You can start by changing just the electrolytics. The way I understand it, the e-caps are dangerous, while the paper caps are more a matter of quality/ precision. I would also add a fuse and change the power cord. I'd feel safer knowing a fuse will blow if there are shorts.

On mine, I plan to change the electrolytics and the chopped wires, then look into paper caps. I hope I have all I need in the mail from radiodaze; I ordered a replacement for everything that is in the mfd range.
I already added a 3-prong cord with a fuse.

[gvel]

happyphantom...that cabinet is in wonderful condition!

As you all ready know, it's most important to change out the electrolytics, first. Once these are changed, the buzz and hum should be gone. If not, don't get discouraged! Tubes and other components can cause similar symptoms.

You should change all of the paper/wax capacitors too. Don't get in a hurry, and change only one capacitor at a time. After replacing each component, turn on the radio, to verify you didn't make an error. You have already confirmed the radio works, sort of, so you have a baseline to make comparisons.

FM too...WOW! 8)

Good luck and have fun!

[happyphantom]

The cabinet had a few surface dings and had quite a bit of white paint transfer where I guess it had brushed up against a wall. I just used some old english scratch cover and some elbow grease. It doesn't look as though it was ever refinished. In the right light you can see some light crazing/crackling of the lacquer in the top right corner, but it doesn't bother me. I mean, it is 60-some-odd years old, right?! (And it looks like it belongs in my 90 year old house...)
It was fun cleaning up the cabinet...it just sort of started to glow! The turntable was so caked in dust it wouldn't budge, but my 2 year old little neat freak and I got that up and running. (Don't know if it plays, but it spins and the arm goes over there...) Not going to try playing anything, though, until it's recapped.
Thanks again for all the advice. I'll get my caps ordered and let you know how it goes!
~Jen

[Radioroslyn]

Wow Nice looking set! Keep us posted on your progress. If you need help you know where to come.
Terry

[happyphantom]

Stupid question time. Is there a way to look at the schematic and tell which are paper/wax caps? I saw a few clearly marked as electrolytics...and I REALLY don't want to pull the chasis in front of my 2 year old--he loves "fixing" things. About how many paper caps are we talking about? The schematics have about a billion caps listed and I'm a little intimidated. BTW I'm referring the the Riders.

~jen

[Marsupial]

I had the exact same issue!
Toddlers, not knowing what to order, radio... lol

I've read somewhere that the microfarads (uF or mF) are likely paper caps, while the picofarads (pF or mmF) are likely ceramics or mica. So I used that as a starting point when ordering.

It is not a definitive answer, but a good starting point.

If someone else has a better way of telling, I'm all ears!

[Marsupial]

so, any news on that radio?

I am looking forward to not be the only new guys with a '47 Philco phonogram radio in the restauration phase...

[happyphantom]

Got my caps this week and have a solder sucker on order. I'm just waiting for a weekend that my dad can come over and show me the finer points of soldering...hopefully next weekend! I'm antsy to get started.

[Ron Ramirez]

As Greg mentioned, you both need to replace all paper and electrolytic capacitors for the best performance.

And if you want a good, high quality photocopy of the service information for your set, contact Chuck Schwark. For a very reasonable price, you will get all of the pertinent service information for your radio, including an 11" x 17" enlarged schematic and notes of any production changes.

http://www.philcorepairbench.com/schematics.htm

[Ron Ramirez]

Stupid question time. Is there a way to look at the schematic and tell which are paper/wax caps?

Naah, that isn't a "stupid" question at all

I can't speak for Rider's, but in the original Philco factory schematic for the 47-1227, it shows the electrolytics with a small + just above and to the left of the capacitor symbol, indicating the positive lead.

I see four electrolytics (again, going by the original Philco factory schematic): C102, C103A, C103B, C325.

[Marsupial]

Ron, the electrolytics are easier to identify, but is there a way to discriminate the ceramic/mica from the wax/paper?


I looked about ordering from Chuck, but the fact I am in canada makes it prohibitive: US money order for me would cost more than the order...
so far the riders are a good help.