[CrumblingWires]

Hey everyone,

How many tube shields do I need for a 38-116 chassis ?

Just bought one(haven't plugged it in yet) & it has accommodations for *9 shields* NO SIGNS OF SHIELD MOUNTS BEING REMOVED & it has the '38 tube compliment in it. Code 125.

The 6R7 tube has no shield or mount but is a Grid Cap tube. The other tube shield that seems to be "missing"? is a 6J5 in the middle of the left side when viewing the rear of the set.

I have a 37-116, which I thought had a 38 chassis stuck in it because it has a '38 tube set compliment in it, but it requires & has 11 shields. This chassis plays well. The 6R7 tube IS shielded.

Neither chassis has a 6L7, 6F6 or 6H6 in them. Codes 121 &122. AND Both chassises appear to have ALL Factory rivets holding the tube sockets in them still.

I'm starting to think I have a '37 chassis IN THE '37 cabinet(code 121 or 122) with a "38 tube compliment in it. If so it certainly plays ok.

Noob still learnin'
Lloyd

[Carl Travis]

Lloyd,
Does your chassis look like this?
http://www.tuberadioland.com/files/philc38-116xx_30.jpg
http://midwestvex.org/FTP/tillichn/IMG_5121.jpg
It should show you what tubes need shields.

[CrumblingWires]

Thanks for those pics Carl,

The first pic shows a 10 shield count & the second picture shows a 9 shield count.

Both pics have a shield over the 6R7 tube, 2nd row over, 2nd tube up from the left.
My '38 chassis(9tube shield mounts) does not have that shield Mount for a shield. Both chassis I have, have shields over the two 6J5 tubes that are first in both rows at the left.

In the 2nd picture, it looks like some one might have removed the tube shield mount in the lower left corner, in order to accomodate that 6J5 GT dia. tube. Shouldn't that tube be shielded regardless? Both the chassis I have, have a tube shield & mount at that lower left corner location.

I had some one count the shields in thier '38 chassis, they also came up with 11 Now I see two pics that have a 9 & 10 shield count.

My '37 cabinet with a '38 tube compliment has 11 shields.
5 in the 1st row @ left
2 in the 2nd row from left &
4 up on top of the tuning chassis

Evidently I NEED some one to tell me the shield requirements for a '37 code 121&122 chassis & a '38 code 125, because I, certainly can't glean that from the schematics.

With that 10 shield picture it now throws another "log onto the fire"

Thanks Again, Carl,
Lloyd

[Uffda]

Here's another log. 38-116 code 121.

[Image: http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/u...0_0799.jpg]

[CrumblingWires]

Thanks Phil,

That certainly helps, although 2 shields are missing up on the tuning chassis this looks alot like the '38? chassis that was stuck in the '37 cabinet. Obviously the 6R7 tube with grid cap needs to be shielded. This particular picture shows ALL 3 6J5 tubes shielded also.

So can I assume that all '37 & '38 chassis needed 11 shields?

One thing that has "thrown me for a loop" is this pic IS titled 38-116 CODE 121 !!! I thought ALL '38-116 chassis were code 125 at least that is what the sticker in the cabinet states & what "I" can see from the schematics.

My '37 cabinet has a sticker claiming at one time that it had a code 122 chassis in it. So I was assuming that '37s were coded 121 &122 ONLY.

I do know one thing where I'm missing those two tube shields, there is NO evidence(patina)that they were even there. The chassis is fairly clean. I'm starting to wonder if the 6J5 & the 6R7 were either big base GT style or metal for this particular run of '38s?

Seems 1938 was a little early though for metal tubes.?

The mystery deepens, once more,
Lloyd

[Uffda]

Lloyd, I just double checked. The blue sticker with the model number says code 121. Not sure what the difference is, but Chuck probably has paper for both.

[CrumblingWires]

Thanks Phil,

We certainly do need to take notice of those blue stickers.

So you have a '38 slant front(no stoop) that came from Philco with a code 121 chassis. Then Philco must of had "left overs" then for '38 because my '37 cabinet has a code 122 blue sticker on it.

My '38 slant front has a code125 blue sticker on it & I believe it has it's original chassis.

Thanks once again Phil, that narrows my quandary down a little,
Lloyd

[Uffda]

My understanding is that the first production were 121 and later 125. Don't know of any other chassis' for the 38-116. Nostalgiaair only lists the two. But if Ron & Chuck differ, don't mind me.

[Arran]

My understanding is that the first production were 121 and later 125. Don't know of any other chassis' for the 38-116. Nostalgiaair only lists the two. But if Ron & Chuck differ, don't mind me.

I'm not expert on this but I think that many are getting confused as to what the code numbers mean. In Philco jargon "Code 121" always means the original production design of whatever model it is, it does not mean that it was early production, if it has also production run number that's what will tell you whether it was late or early production. Now the higher number codes mean that they made different production versions to accommodate whatever parts supply they had on hand, (usually involves tube changes) so if there is a Code 122 and a Code 125 then there has to be a Code 123 and 124 as well, since Philco was a huge company these could vary from week to week. I can give an example of this, the Philco 46-1201 "Bing Crosby", there are no less then eight code numbers of Codes 121-128 with production runs marked 1 through 4, and they weren't necessarily produced in a linear fashion. You could have a Code 121 set made in production run 3 or a code 126 made in production run 2.
Regards
Arran

[Uffda]

Arran, Let's see if I have this straight. There are only two chassis codes for the 38-116XX --121 and 125. You are not saying there must be a 122, 123 and 124. Only that the 121 was first production and if there were a 122 there would also have to be a 123 and 124 since the 125 exists. Correct? The second chassis could be any number? Why 125 and not 122?

Anyone else get brain cramps? Luckily baseball, even MN Twins, eases them.

[Arran]

Arran, Let's see if I have this straight. There are only two chassis codes for the 38-116XX --121 and 125. You are not saying there must be a 122, 123 and 124. Only that the 121 was first production and if there were a 122 there would also have to be a 123 and 124 since the 125 exists. Correct? The second chassis could be any number? Why 125 and not 122?

Anyone else get brain cramps? Luckily baseball, even MN Twins, eases them.

What I am saying is that if they produced a chassis as a code 121, then the next in line would have to be a code 122, if there is a code 125 then there has to be a code 122, 123, and 124 version as well. What I was trying to say is that the code numbers represent different production designs not production runs, Philco would often alternate between different production code designs during a production run depending on what parts they had on hand, and that doesn't include running changes to improve things. So if they had the tubes on hand for a code 121 they would build 121s, if not they might build a code 122 or 123 etc. depending on what parts they had on hand. If there were only two production versions they would use a code 121 and then a code 122, as far as I know they would not skip numbers and build a 121 and then code the second version as a 125 with no intention of building the other versions. You can't use Nostalgia Air as a complete reference to this, the schematics that they have listed are whatever someone decided to post, you would need the complete service data from the factory. Getting back to the 46-1201 for example, there were eight code numbers from 121 through 128, however Nostalgia Air only has one or two diagrams but the others definitely exist in the Philco Factory data sheets. If you are used to Zeniths this will drive you nuts but it was Philco's way.
Regards
Arran

[Uffda]

Thanks. I'm not used to Zeniths and it still drives me nuts.

Time for a wee bit o' bourbon to de-nut me. (That doesn't quite sound right.)


G'nite Gracie.

[Ron Ramirez]

What I am saying is that if they produced a chassis as a code 121, then the next in line would have to be a code 122, if there is a code 125 then there has to be a code 122, 123, and 124 version as well.

Not necessarily. Philco's 38-116 was produced only in Code 121 and Code 125 flavors. There is no factory data on any other production codes for the 38-116, and as no other codes have been found, we can assume there are only the two production codes for this model.

This holds true for USA-made Philco 38-116 sets. Canadian 38-C116 sets may differ in production code numbers.

Another thing about 38-116 sets. 38-116 Code 121 models used the 1937 RF unit (same as used on models 37-116, 37-675 and 37-690), with a multitude of adjustments. On the other hand, 38-116 Code 125 models used a different (new for 1938) RF unit with relatively few trimmer condensers. The later RF unit is the same one as used on model 38-690, code 125.

[Arran]

What I am saying is that if they produced a chassis as a code 121, then the next in line would have to be a code 122, if there is a code 125 then there has to be a code 122, 123, and 124 version as well.

Not necessarily. Philco's 38-116 was produced only in Code 121 and Code 125 flavors. There is no factory data on any other production codes for the 38-116, and as no other codes have been found, we can assume there are only the two production codes for this model.

This holds true for USA-made Philco 38-116 sets. Canadian 38-C116 sets may differ in production code numbers.

Another thing about 38-116 sets. 38-116 Code 121 models used the 1937 RF unit (same as used on models 37-116, 37-675 and 37-690), with a multitude of adjustments. On the other hand, 38-116 Code 125 models used a different (new for 1938) RF unit with relatively few trimmer condensers. The later RF unit is the same one as used on model 38-690, code 125.

It just seems strange that they would do things that way, the usual pattern was to have an original version as a code 121, as they were in this case and most others, and then a code 122, and so on for subsequent versions, most models never went beyond two versions in a given production run from what I have encountered. I wonder why they would have skipped codes 122, 123, 124 and jumped straight to code 125? Unless the code numbers have nothing to do with what was actually produced and only to do with circuit designs? Maybe the 122-124 never left the drawing board? If you are talking about the Canadian built versions they could be different yet again, and often were since they often sourced parts and supplies locally. The only way to find out would be to talk to a Philco engineer who worked for the company between 1936-38 unless the records explaining why miraculously survived. This is one of the aspects of old radios that interests me, too many people get caught up on cabinet designs, I like to look in the back and beyond.
Regards
Arran

[CrumblingWires]

Hey Guys,
Not to stray too far off topic but my original questions that really haven't been answered is tube shield count. Still the code info is very interesting & helpful to me on these 116s & Thanks Ron for narrowing the '38 codes down.

I Highly Regard both Ron's expertise with the Philcos & Arran's Vast Knowledge of All Types of radios in general. But here is what I discovered:

Carl,
Those two pictures you supplied ARE Both missing tube shields with all due respect to Paul's website & the other.

Phil,

Thank You for chiming back in with the '38 sticker that has code 121 printed on it. That reaffirms what Ron was saying. Unfortunately Phil, your '38 is missing TWO square tube shields up on top of that tuning chassis & I would be very suspect if that metal tube should be in there. Radio ground wired properly? To accept it.

I looked at the known '38 chassis code 125 with good light and a magnifier & noticed a very slight difference in patina around the TWO tube sockets in question. The tube shield's mounting plates HAD Been Removed. I could also slide my fingernail between the chassis & the top of the rivet that holds the socket along with the tube shield mount.

They must have been removed early in the radio's history in order to accommodate the bigger GT style diameter. They definitely did a good job, No Hack Marks at All. The thing they did fail on was, the knowledge that those tubes still needed shielding.

It appears that *ALL* 116s should have 11 tube shields. Also I don't think that metal tubes came stock in any '38 & before Philcos.

Now that I have both Arran's & Ron's experienced attention the other question I had was could a '37 code 122 chassis operate off a '38 tube compliment?

Thanks to All of you that have helped this Noob out so far,
Lloyd
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Ooohhh Noooo, What’s the Matter NOW?? It WAS Working GREAT before I “FIXED IT”!!