Posts: 5
Threads: 1
Joined: Mar 2021
City: Franklin
State, Province, Country: Tennessee
Hi, I am new to the forum and excited to increase my knowledge of antique radios.
I was given this inop Philco 49-607 and would like to know where to start my troubleshooting. I powered it on through a dim bulb tester. The bulb did not light. Tube 117z3 glowed bright for a moment and went out. I did see light from other tubes and got no sound even at full volume. The label shows code 121.
I am hoping to get some guidance as I am limited on my knowledge of tube gear.
Thanks
James
Posts: 2,005
Threads: 150
Joined: Jan 2013
City: Westland, MI
Welcome to the Phorum, James! According to the information available in our Philco Radio Gallery and Philco Radio Library, your 49-607 is probably a 48-360 chassis in a 'refreshed' cabinet. Plenty of information is available in those sites located at the bottom of this page. Photographs are always helpful. It sounds like the 117z3 tube is now toast. I would recommend replacing all paper and electrolytic caps, and any out-of-tolerance resistors. I am sure others who have worked on these will help out with more information. Take care and BE HEALTHY! Gary
"Don't pity the dead, pity the living, above all, those living without love."
Professor Albus Dumbledore
Gary - Westland Michigan
Posts: 15,957
Threads: 557
Joined: Oct 2011
City: Jackson, NJ
OK, first things first: As Gary has said, do not power up, not with dim bulb, or anything else, until all the tubular/backelite/electrolytic (with the exception of the mica) capacitors are replaced, and the tubes tested.
Then you will tend to other things.
People who do not drink, do not smoke, do not eat red meat will one day feel really stupid lying there and dying from nothing.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2024, 04:30 PM by morzh.)
Posts: 5
Threads: 1
Joined: Mar 2021
City: Franklin
State, Province, Country: Tennessee
I found this troubleshooting guide and got 117vac at test point A and 0 at tp C. I got 0 at tp D which indicated a bad tube or switches. I cleaned the switches and the 117z3 tube socket. Still no voltage. As I said earlier, the tube lights bright when I first turn it on and then dims. This has happened several times. I have to let it be off for over an hour for it to light when I turn it on.
I will get the tube checked or get another.
Is it likely I have fried the tube at ignition?
James
Posts: 1,058
Threads: 9
Joined: Jul 2020
City: Greenlawn
State, Province, Country: NY
Hi Tennangler,
Welcome to the Philco Phorum! Lots of phine phriendly phlks phull of Philco phacts. (See a pattern here?)
Was the negative lead on test point B for all the tests? If it was ion the chassis instead, you woll get verylow readings ans this is a "warm" chassis (isolated by a cap and high resistance resistor), not a "hot "chassis (one side of AC line connected directly to the chassis).
Like Gary and Morzh said, consider replacing all capacitors, especially the electrolytics, before powering up. The electrolytic and paper caps are known to short or open. There is no need to replace the mica caps in the audio section unless you find them to be bad.
Attached below is the complete schematic for Model 49-105, similar to your 49-107.
Attached below is a blow up of the power supply.
It is common for certain tubes to glow bright and dim, and the 117Z3 is no exception. However, the tube should glow an orange to almost yellow glow, and the cathode tube should glow wen te tube settles down. It is possible that the tube get intermittent, but this is not common. Most tubes either work or fail as far as the heater goes. You can CAREFULLY check for 120V AC between pins 23 and 4 when the issue occurs. If AC is there, then the tube is bad or the socket connection is bad. If not there, then investigate S100 and S101
It is important that S100 and S101be clean or you will fail the tests in the guide that you got from the Rider manual for this set. Spray switches with Caig DeOxIt contact cleaner, but use Caig DeOxIt fader lube for the volume control. Exercise the power switch (S101) by turning on and off. Exercise the AC Battery Switch (S100) by inserting the plug into the hole on the chassis designed for it. This switches the radio to battery.
Note that the filaments of the tubes other than the rectifier are all in series and run off a 7.5V battery if the unit as on battery power. Some folks would put a 9V Zener diode across the filament supply. The most convenient spot to do so is C100D
It is important to get the wiring right with this power supply, especially the cap values and the candohm, R100. Failure to do so could cause the tubes other than the rectifier to burn out. They are all pretty common except the Audio Output Tube, 3LF4. I think that these are rather rare! Note that the tubes other than the rectifier don't really light up, even in a very dark room.
"Do Justly, love Mercy and walk humbly with your God"- Micah 6:8
Best Regards,
MrFixr55
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2024, 07:38 PM by MrFixr55.)
Posts: 5
Threads: 1
Joined: Mar 2021
City: Franklin
State, Province, Country: Tennessee
Thanks for the detailed explanation of how this radio works.
The 117z3 tube that was glowing each time I turned it on is no longer glowing. I may have burned it out. Will have to change those caps before I power up again.
I was putting my negative lead on test point B when checking voltages. I had already throughly cleaned those switches.
Are all the electrolitic in that big multi cap can? Looks like a big job to replace them.
I can not find the place on the chassis to plug the battery plug in.
Thanks for the replies. I will post updates.
James
Posts: 1,058
Threads: 9
Joined: Jul 2020
City: Greenlawn
State, Province, Country: NY
Hi James,
OK, there may be more than one way to operate that switch. Whatever way yours works, exercise the switch. You can check the filament of 117Z3 by ohming between pin 3 and 4 of the tube. It should be well under 100 Ohm cold. The issue with tube filaments (and light bulb filaments) is that they are not "ohmic" devices. The hotter they get, the higher the resistance.
Hope this helps.
"Do Justly, love Mercy and walk humbly with your God"- Micah 6:8
Best Regards,
MrFixr55
Posts: 1,058
Threads: 9
Joined: Jul 2020
City: Greenlawn
State, Province, Country: NY
RE the filter cap, Yeah, these things are tight inside. I have a 46-350. Yours is similar except for the audio output tube. They can be tight. Fortunately for me, someone recapped the unit before I purchased.
"Do Justly, love Mercy and walk humbly with your God"- Micah 6:8
Best Regards,
MrFixr55
Posts: 5
Threads: 1
Joined: Mar 2021
City: Franklin
State, Province, Country: Tennessee
I measured .43 kohms across pins 3 and 4.
Posts: 821
Threads: 49
Joined: Feb 2013
City: Shenandoah,
State, Province, Country: Pennsylvania
Just a word of caution. I don’t know if your portable is similar to a 46-350 that MrFixr mentioned, but I have the same 46-350. When pulling the chassis from the cabinet, I grabbed the electrolytic can to pull the chassis out and when I did it crumbled like an eggshell in my hand. I don’t know what kind of metal it’s made of but it wasn’t the aluminum that most were made of. It was a dull grey and very fragile! YMMV.
Ron
Bendix 0626. RCA 8BX5. RCA T64
Philco 41-250. Philco49-500
GE 201. Philco 39-25
Motorola 61X13. Philco 46-42 Crosley 52TQ
Philco 37-116. Philco 70
AK 35 Philco 46-350
Philco 620B. Zenith Transoceanic B-600
Philco 60B. Majestic 50
Philco 52-944. AK 84
Posts: 5
Threads: 1
Joined: Mar 2021
City: Franklin
State, Province, Country: Tennessee
I was able to borrow a tube tester and my 117z3 is good. It glowed when I applied voltage to it as it had in the radio. It got very hot.
All the tubes tested good except the 1u5. From what I read this is a power tube. I no I need to replace the caps but is this likely the source of no volume?
James
Posts: 15,957
Threads: 557
Joined: Oct 2011
City: Jackson, NJ
1U5 is not a power tube. It does indeed have a diode in it, but this is a detector type and not a power rectifier.
The tube is a combined diode-pentode, that detects and amplifies.
People who do not drink, do not smoke, do not eat red meat will one day feel really stupid lying there and dying from nothing.
Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)
|
Recent Posts
|
My first Philco radio.
|
Using brass go to the range look at different spent shell casing find one the right size then cut to length. DavidDavid — 10:34 PM |
My first Philco radio.
|
Only thing I can think of is using something tougher for shim material like very thin steel or brass?
Whatever soft gar...Oldie Goldie — 10:18 PM |
My first Philco radio.
|
morzh, yeah that's basically the same shaft I have.
Your probably right, that the ball bearings have gouged a groove so...Oldie Goldie — 10:09 PM |
My first Philco radio.
|
Ok I took a tea candle and used it's metal cup for thin shim material.
Cut a long straight piece and put it inside the c...Oldie Goldie — 09:34 PM |
Philco 49-607 inop
|
1U5 is not a power tube. It does indeed have a diode in it, but this is a detector type and not a power rectifier.
The ...morzh — 08:57 PM |
Philco 49-607 inop
|
I was able to borrow a tube tester and my 117z3 is good. It glowed when I applied voltage to it as it had in the radio. ...Tennangler — 08:34 PM |
Custom Hammond Power Transformer
|
...or one might keep checking eBay, swapmeets. Power xfmrs from Philco often pop up. And though the price of them is som...morzh — 08:31 PM |
My first Philco radio.
|
OK, found it.
Ron's 37-640. The last page
Is this the gear?
PS. If it keeps doing it, maybe the balls have worn out...morzh — 08:27 PM |
My first Philco radio.
|
The inner shaft should snap in place.
Mr. Fixr, sorry did not see your post, so omine was redundant.morzh — 08:19 PM |
My first Philco radio.
|
Circlip, c-clip, e-clip, snap ring - all types of the retaining ring. Also called "Jesus clip". The reason bei...morzh — 08:18 PM |
Who's Online
|
There are currently 1941 online users. [Complete List] » 4 Member(s) | 1937 Guest(s)
|
|
|
|