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B&K 1077B no video - problem solved
#1

Well, here's a head scratcher. I had been using my 1077 while working on the Emerson and the last time I tried to use it, no video. I have sound, the RF out is working but the "test" light is on, which wasn't before. Upon lifting the cover I noted the CRT wasn't lit. All the tubes are lit. I double checked my settings, flipped switches, nothing. Sooo - dropped it down on the bench and began making some checks. I don't have the best schematic and the one I do have isn't the most descriptive thing. It lacks in the description of which switch is which, circuit description, etc, so it takes some detective work. If anyone has a good schemo I would be quite apprecative.

So, here's where I am. No HV, low (no) boost, B+ present and close to what it needs to be. No - on the H out grid, no signal, so the oscillator isn't running. It uses a 8CG7 dual triode. Tested good. Subbed the 33GY7 - no change. Yes, it is power transformer B+, series strung heaters. I have an older thread where this was recapped in 2000, but found my thread locked. Actually, found a lot of my threads locked. So, I noted the plate voltages on the osc tube were very low, which would make sense if it wasn't running and the tube was turned on all the way. It's suppose to have a - voltage on the grids too - nothing there. Ok, well, those plates are also run off the boost, and it is non existent. I saw a .1 cap off the boost source that looked like it had been desoldered previously, so I checked it - perfect, no leakage, so I ruled it out. I CAN hear the h-osc starting briefly when I flip the power switch on, but it just blips, then goes dead. I verified this with my scope.

This wasn't a good week for my test equipment, audio signal tracer quit (lead broke inside the probe - what a pain!), then my B&K, and I needed by sweep generator - and IT wouldn't work! Man, those e caps SHOULD last longer then 60 years - right? I mean seriously!  Icon_lol Ok, well, it needed fixed anyway. No sense having it if it doesn't work when I need it. It's like a tractor that won't start when my truck is stuck, and have to fix the battery charger so I can charge the battery on the tractor so I can start it and pull my truck out Icon_crazy

Alright, with that working now, I shoved a H drive signal into the output tube in the B&K and found everything was working from that point on. Have my screen lit with both V & H sweep and HV. Boost is also working. Still low plate voltage on the osc. should be 225v, sets about 25. Comes up briefly when the switch is flipped, but drops off, so again, osc isn't running. Now, here's where the confusion is coming in. The schematic shows 4 ICs right before the osc tube. Soooo - is what I thought is the osc tube actually just a driver? Then, are those 4 ICs actually the oscillator? FYI, on this one, the vert osc is a couple transistors that go to the triode driver then on to the output. That one's obvious. But, lack of information on the Horiz. No voltages listed on the schematic on the ICs, no description, no nothing. Do they just "kick start" the oscillator, then it is dying out, or are those ICs actually the oscillator and the 2 sections of the CG7 just drivers for the output? In looking at the schematic, it could be either. I'll post what I have a little later.  Never had a moments trouble from this up until now. I have a smoked up one that I might be able to compare voltages, and yeah, maybe should go ahead and replace the larger value caps.

If I could find the place called "Somewhere", I could find "Anything" Icon_confused

Tim

Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me , believes not in me but in him who sent me" John 12:44
#2

Ok, I found a little info on the other forum, these ICs are 'clocking' ics, and are my horizontal drive. So, now, I need to figure out what voltages these ICs are suppose to have and see if I lost my supply voltage to those. Nothing on the schemo. I swapped 6GH8s from the sweep board and color board w no change.

If I could find the place called "Somewhere", I could find "Anything" Icon_confused

Tim

Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me , believes not in me but in him who sent me" John 12:44
#3

Hello Tim,
Here is a link to restoration of one on Phil's old radios site !

Sincerely Richard

bk1077b
#4

Thanks Rich! I'll take a look and see what he has. I know there's more modern equipment to be had, but this one I know and understand, and is one of my most used pieces of equipment when I'm working on a TV.

If I could find the place called "Somewhere", I could find "Anything" Icon_confused

Tim

Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me , believes not in me but in him who sent me" John 12:44
#5

Hello Tim,
I have that exact unit in my shop too plus a Sencore unit there are times I like one or other !!.

Sincerely Richard
#6

I found a schematic and think I have the problem traced down to the minus power supply. I have very low voltages that go to zero when powered up, and the higher voltages are cut in half. I opened the resistors coming from each source and noted any voltage changes in checking for something loading down the circuit. I ended up disconnecting everything - no load and have only around -100v. Should be -220 or around. Checked the power trans and it is putting out the correct voltages. So ... getting interesting. The B+ is fine, its the B-. And, yeah, it powers the ICs, vert transistors, and a bunch of other stuff. Interestingly, the B- supply stays powered up even when the switch is in 'standby'. It just cuts the B+.

Rich,
That 1077b is hard to beat! I have a couple more modern ones, but for simplicity and brute force, that 1077 rules! It is my 'go to' tester for TVs, kinda like my Precise 111 is my go to tube tester. I DO really like the Sencore stuff. They seem to be really well built and straightforward and accurate.

If I could find the place called "Somewhere", I could find "Anything" Icon_confused

Tim

Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me , believes not in me but in him who sent me" John 12:44
#7

Hello Tim,
I would if it's a leaky Capacitor So are all 3 of those B- voltages low then ?
Sincerely Richard
#8

I'm going to get back into it tonight. but I disconnected the 2 main resistors off this supply going to different parts of the unit. I'm thinking maybe a diode failed?? It checks ok on my Fluke ... but maybe breaking down when higher voltage is applied?? I have a solid 220 A/C off the PT on that side, yet only around 100v or so with no load. That's with all the caps out of the circuit. BTW, I did change all the electrolytics back with my 1st revamp, so I'll change that diode tonight and clip a fresh e cap on and see that happens. It's actually about the same setup and voltages as the B+ except it's the - supply. I'll try to get a schemo posted which I have with the ICs. It's actually 2 ICs but shown as 4 on the diagram. It's really kinda weird yet ingenious how this works!

If I could find the place called "Somewhere", I could find "Anything" Icon_confused

Tim

Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me , believes not in me but in him who sent me" John 12:44
#9

Hello Tim,
I once had a Jcpenny 13inch tv /monitor built by NEC come into my repairshop it would start acting up at times and go into shutdown it ended up being a bad diode in the switching powersupply and did that stump me for about year .

Sincerely Richard
P.S. my Customer had given it to me !
#10

I got back into it tonight. Problem found and resolved! Sometimes it helps to take a break and think things over. It wasn't what I originally thought, in fact, I wasted a LOT of time chasing - nothing. The culprit? Open electrolytic cap! Remember, I recapped it about 5 years ago? Well, one of the new caps was dead. I clipped a sub on and things came up, so I replaced and it came back to life. I wouldn't have dreamed that one of my new caps would have failed already - but it did! Soooo - learn from my pain, just because caps are new(er), doesn't mean they are good.

C62 was the main filter on the - supply.

   

The left black capacitor in the board with the tuners over it.
   

Soldered in a replacement and it came to life.
   

This cap is DEAD!

   

I still had a bag with some left - 10uf 450v. I believe came from AES. Has the big "U" on it. I tested a few others and they were marginal, not giving a good solid reading. Tossed them in the trash.
   

The schemo showing the horizontal driver using the ICs. This is kinda hard to find, so if you need a copy, PM me and I can send or post.
   

If I could find the place called "Somewhere", I could find "Anything" Icon_confused

Tim

Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me , believes not in me but in him who sent me" John 12:44
#11

Hello Tim,
Yes, I even check all of my replacement parts when I install them and I too had a capacitor go bad not long after it was installed .

Sincerely Richard
P.S. glad you got it working !!




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