[morzh]

A person from a Russian Antique radio restoration forum contacted me today (he's in Ukraine) and offered to supply me with old Soviet models should I ever want one.
He also offered possible exchanges.

He himself is interested in American old tube technology and parts.

He seems like a decent fellow, being also a moderator of that website and the forum.

If anyone interested, I can connect you.

Myself, I plan on acquiring few, at some point, when done with mu current projects.

BTW all old Soviet radios have 110V-127V-220V switch so they should be OK working here. Our frequency is different (60Hz vs their 50Hz) but the higher frequency should be OK, I think, and in rare cases where it is not, the adjustments are easy to make.


PS. Believe it or not (some folks might think they had one model for everybody) they had probably more than a hundred over the years. Some may even look strangely familiar.....many of them were if not copied off of, then inspired by American radios.

[Arran]

I have what I think is a Soviet Daugava model from the late 1950s, I wouldn't mind getting a parts chassis and a new dial for it, the tuning condenser is junk. I don't know if it's worth it though, maybe if I went over there on vacation and picked one up at their version of a flea market. It may be just as easy picking up a better example of the same model but who knows?
I also have a Soviet set from about 1966-67 vintage calls a "Chaika", it has a phonograph built into the top of the cabinet, it is in better shape then the Daugava but needs some work as well. All of the writing is in Cyrillic except for one corner of the dial that reads "Made in USSR Sample". Interesting that you should mention the power transformers having voltage taps on the primary, both of my sets have those, one was obviously an export model but I don't think that the other was, did they use different line voltages in different parts of the old Soviet Union? I heard a rumor that the government over there hired some American firms to supply equipment, or engineer part of the electrical grid back in the 1920s in the Eastern part of the USSR, I know that they did this with other things but who knows?
Regards
Arran

[morzh]

Well, yes, all the radios, even those built in 70s, had 110/220V switch since there were still some nooks even in 70s.

Before the WWII most places were 110-127V.

Americans did consult the largest hydroelectric plants' projects in 20s. The famous DneproGES (Dnieper Hydroelectric Plant, now in Ukraine) was consulted by Hugh Cooper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnieper_Hyd...ic_Station
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Cooper

When I was growing up, I saw in 70s last 110-127V strongholds disappear, but even in 80s one could see all electronic and electrical equipment having switches for 127V (even electric shavers).


As for the vacation, if you indeed plan go there (not just for radios), sure, this may be your best bet to pick up some good equipment.

Daugava was built at A. Popov Riga Radio factory (Latvia).

[TA Forbes]

The only Russian stuff I am into is firearms. Early in my USMC career I learned that you could drop an AK 47 in the mud and still reasonably expect it to work when you needed it to. This provided me with great comfort and recompense when in an otherwise extremely elevated state of awareness.

[morzh]

AK47, i had to shoot it when in the reservist camp. And in hi school. Well, it is indeed very reliable. And reasonably accurate. It is not, strictly speaking a rifle, so if a sniper could use M16, he would not use Kalash. Also very powerful.

[Arran]

Well, yes, all the radios, even those built in 70s, had 110/220V switch since there were still some nooks even in 70s.

Before the WWII most places were 110-127V.

Americans did consult the largest hydroelectric plants' projects in 20s. The famous DneproGES (Dnieper Hydroelectric Plant, now in Ukraine) was consulted by Hugh Cooper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnieper_Hyd...ic_Station
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Cooper

When I was growing up, I saw in 70s last 110-127V strongholds disappear, but even in 80s one could see all electronic and electrical equipment having switches for 127V (even electric shavers).


As for the vacation, if you indeed plan go there (not just for radios), sure, this may be your best bet to pick up some good equipment.

Daugava was built at A. Popov Riga Radio factory (Latvia).

So it wasn't just a rumor, interesting, rather like how they bought technology from RCA in the mid 1930s (either officially or unofficially)to get the Soviet radio industry going. In my opinion they should have stayed with the 110-120 volt system instead of going with the wacky European 220-240 crap, was it 60 cps as well as it is here? Is the newer 240 volt system 50 cps like in Europe? At least everywhere that they use 110-120 volts they use the same recepticals and the same lamp sockets, in Europe every other country thought it was a bright idea coming out with ones of their own. If the former Soviet Union would have stuck with 120 Volts that would have inconvenienced the Germans, French, or Chinese should they have invaded, unless they switched to 240 V to inconvenience the Americans or export electricity? Funny how everyone can agree to drive on the right hand side of the road in continental Europe but they can't agree on what plugs to use.
Regards
Arran

[morzh]

Well, it was always 50 Hz when it eventually standardized (I understand when they first started the electrification there was no standard, and they used whatever, and there were DC mains, AC mains, 30V, 50V, 120V and such, and I suspect the frequency was not an issue - the main goal was the electric lighting).
Never really 60Hz, like it is here/

But, to tell you the truth, 220V is more convenient - you don't have to handle as much current, though it is deadlier, of course. But then to plug in an electric teapot that is 1 kWt of power, would take me to provide for a 4.5A wiring there and for 9A wiring here; there go your losses, flammability etc. (not that we had less fires that you do - probably more; Russians are notorious for their no giving a crap attitude when something goes bad, waiting for a disaster to happen, and they used aluminum wiring up until very recently, 80-s/90-s, whereas here it was outlawed way before, and people stopped using it even before that. And, what's worse, there are still places with it over there, as no one is required to replace it; just recently an acquaintance of mine from Moscow complained about two small fires one after another started in the outlets, and I told him that the wiring is probably aluminum and that was the reason, and he confirmed, that it was the case - the wiring there is aluminum. And all they did was replace the outlet, clean the wires and close it. There. )

As for the plug in Europe, I understand it is more or less standardized (one of my projects was a power supply that would work in there), or at least there is not as many varieties as there used to be.

The distance between the prongs is the same, but there is a GND plug, or GND ring, and most differences are still in the Eastern Europe where they had their own thing before 90s.

Russian plug used thinner prongs, and never had a safety GND, unless a specific plug was used (for heavy equipment, like electric washers, and then it was nothing like you've seen in appliances - flat prongs at 120 degree angles to each other), so it would fit a European outlet, but would be loose in it.

Also we used bare non-plated brass for the prongs.

[codefox1]

Well, it was always 50 Hz when it eventually standardized (I understand when they first started the electrification there was no standard, and they used whatever, and there were DC mains, AC mains, 30V, 50V, 120V and such, and I suspect the frequency was not an issue - the main goal was the electric lighting).
Never really 60Hz, like it is here/

But, to tell you the truth, 220V is more convenient - you don't have to handle as much current, though it is deadlier, of course. But then to plug in an electric teapot that is 1 kWt of power, would take me to provide for a 4.5A wiring there and for 9A wiring here; there go your losses, flammability etc. (not that we had less fires that you do - probably more; Russians are notorious for their no giving a crap attitude when something goes bad, waiting for a disaster to happen, and they used aluminum wiring up until very recently, 80-s/90-s, whereas here it was outlawed way before, and people stopped using it even before that. And, what's worse, there are still places with it over there, as no one is required to replace it; just recently an acquaintance of mine from Moscow complained about two small fires one after another started in the outlets, and I told him that the wiring is probably aluminum and that was the reason, and he confirmed, that it was the case - the wiring there is aluminum. And all they did was replace the outlet, clean the wires and close it. There. )

As for the plug in Europe, I understand it is more or less standardized (one of my projects was a power supply that would work in there), or at least there is not as many varieties as there used to be.

The distance between the prongs is the same, but there is a GND plug, or GND ring, and most differences are still in the Eastern Europe where they had their own thing before 90s.

Russian plug used thinner prongs, and never had a safety GND, unless a specific plug was used (for heavy equipment, like electric washers, and then it was nothing like you've seen in appliances - flat prongs at 120 degree angles to each other), so it would fit a European outlet, but would be loose in it.

Also we used bare non-plated brass for the prongs.

The exposure is worldwide. That is not all recepticles are wired correctly even now. I think no assumptions should be made when working on sets, and they should all be fused. When in cabinets in reasonable environments with knobs on, etc... probably OK. Otherwise really dangerous. Beware!

[morzh]

Well, I designed power supplies for India, of all places. Just a year ago. For customer premisses (a house or an apartment). Their requirement was for it to work up to 270V AC - their lines are so bad the voltage goes all over the place; 160V-270V is working voltage for 220V nominal.

I spend the beginning of my career back in the USSR, and I saw firsthand how a metal-boxed display station was grounded to a 220V hot wire (a person who wired the place was drunk and switch the Hot and Gnd places). That was not all of it - the shield GND was connected to the Neutral using a neutral as GND. So the display actually worked, but then couple of folks, software guys (I was a hardware Eng there) came to me, complaining to being "bitten" from touching the case (luckily the floors were not GND, otherwise they would not come to me....they'd come straight to the mortician). I went, investigated, found that, raised H**l; the work was stopped and the place was properly re-wired. (The wiring person was not fired.....was not even reprimanded).

So, yes, I am aware of how things work in there.


Better yet, when I was in a reservist camp, receiving my leutenant's rank (so I was essentially a cadet, a private, after a university), I was asked to look at a piece of kitchen equipment, a potato peeler, which was peeling potatoes (usually they used privates for that, but this location was mechanized beyond belief....a potato peeler, that was almost like from fairy tales ) for the whole contingent.

I went in. It was a basement, and it was flooded, so I walked in water up to my ankles. The peeler was not grounded, and was connected to 380V (3 phases). I did not even have a meter. So what I did - I, at my own risk, running my hand full speed past the peeler, briefly touched the case. Got a huge jolt, but due to very fast speed of my hand it lasted, probably, a millisecond.
Then I went to my commanding officer and told them that they are about to have people killed, and they should stop using it.
Whether they did or not - I don't know. This was last time I looked at it.

[morzh]

The exposure is worldwide. That is not all recepticles are wired correctly even now. I think no assumptions should be made when working on sets, and they should all be fused. When in cabinets in reasonable environments with knobs on, etc... probably OK. Otherwise really dangerous. Beware!

Well....Zenith Companion, if you are not careful, will kill you. It uses the outlet directly, and the chassis is basically connected to the outlet. Directly. They rectify the line directly, no transformer or anything.

Good thing - a GFCI outlet will trip.

[TA Forbes]

The M16 is more accurate at longer ranges than the AK, and the ammo is smaller and lighter, which means you can carry more of it. BUT at closer, what we called "combat ranges," the accuracy of the AK was very acceptable. Starting at around 200-300 yards the M16 was much more accurate. Personally, I like having a weapon that fires a big bullet, especially for closer fighting.

I also have a fair amount of experience with the Simonov SVD, and although I like the semi-auto action (means the sniper does not have to move when he actions the bolt), I believe the M40 is far more accurate, especially past 500 yards.

I was a SSgt when I recieved my commission as a Lieutenant.

[Arran]

Well, it was always 50 Hz when it eventually standardized (I understand when they first started the electrification there was no standard, and they used whatever, and there were DC mains, AC mains, 30V, 50V, 120V and such, and I suspect the frequency was not an issue - the main goal was the electric lighting).
Never really 60Hz, like it is here/

But, to tell you the truth, 220V is more convenient - you don't have to handle as much current, though it is deadlier, of course. But then to plug in an electric teapot that is 1 kWt of power, would take me to provide for a 4.5A wiring there and for 9A wiring here; there go your losses, flammability etc. (not that we had less fires that you do - probably more; Russians are notorious for their no giving a crap attitude when something goes bad, waiting for a disaster to happen, and they used aluminum wiring up until very recently, 80-s/90-s, whereas here it was outlawed way before, and people stopped using it even before that. And, what's worse, there are still places with it over there, as no one is required to replace it; just recently an acquaintance of mine from Moscow complained about two small fires one after another started in the outlets, and I told him that the wiring is probably aluminum and that was the reason, and he confirmed, that it was the case - the wiring there is aluminum. And all they did was replace the outlet, clean the wires and close it. There. )

As for the plug in Europe, I understand it is more or less standardized (one of my projects was a power supply that would work in there), or at least there is not as many varieties as there used to be.

The distance between the prongs is the same, but there is a GND plug, or GND ring, and most differences are still in the Eastern Europe where they had their own thing before 90s.

Russian plug used thinner prongs, and never had a safety GND, unless a specific plug was used (for heavy equipment, like electric washers, and then it was nothing like you've seen in appliances - flat prongs at 120 degree angles to each other), so it would fit a European outlet, but would be loose in it.

Also we used bare non-plated brass for the prongs.

There are some houses that were wired using aluminum wire in Canada, mostly from the late 1960s to mid 1970s, after that it was banned for new instalations. However if the wiring was installed before the ban you are allowed to keep it but anything that gets replaced must be replaced with copper, not that you can find aluminum 14/2 or 12/2 house wire anymore anyhow. Where the aluminum wire becomes dangerous is when people use outlets, switches, and wire nuts that are rated only for copper and the connections oxidize and heat up.
Knob and tube is a different story, if your house has knob and tube style wiring, the kind with single conductors and porcelain insulators, it must be replaced when the house is renovated. Knob and tube has no ground and the wires are spliced, soldered, and taped together without being housed in a junction box, the insulation was cloth covered rubber. The splices break down over time, get hot if something is overloaded, and then can cause fire since they are not housed in a box.
I understand the advantage of using a higher voltage for supplying an appliance of the same Wattage, you can use wires of a lighter gauge, this was in part why most auto manufacturers switched over to 12 volt electrical systems from 6 volt in the mid 1950s. However I also figured that it took more energy to supply a higher line volatage, not to mention the shock hazzard is greater for insulation of a different type. Most of the Americas use 120 volt line voltage down to South America, there one half of the countries use 120 volts and the other half use 240 volts. I guess the electrical grids were set up by U.S engineers in half of the countries, and British and French engineers in the other half.
One thing that was not standardized here was the line frequency, most places had 60 cps but there were many that had 25 cps especially in Canada. In some U.S cities they had 40 cps and some used 110 vdc mains. In theory the line voltage was supposed to be 110-120 volts, in practice it varied from place to place, day to day, and one time of day to the next, it could be as low as 105 volts and as high as 125 volts especially back in the 1920s, some radios had taps on the power transformer for this and others had a ballast. In the 25 cycle areas it was supposed to be 115 volts.
Getting back to the outlets used I know that the French, Italians, British, and Irish each use outlets of their own design. Many of the other countries use German style Shucko (sp) outlets where the outside of the plug fits into a round socket. The Australian outlets look like an older American 240 volt air conditioning outlet with three slanted blades, it comes in handy in the rare event you end up with a radio from there.
Regards
Arran

[Arran]

Well....Zenith Companion, if you are not careful, will kill you. It uses the outlet directly, and the chassis is basically connected to the outlet. Directly. They rectify the line directly, no transformer or anything.

Good thing - a GFCI outlet will trip.

What you have found is pretty typical of an All American Five series string transformerless or AC/DC set, they apparently did the same thing in Britain which is even more scarry given the 220 volt line voltage. The Canadian Electrical code forbid that power supply design for radios until the manufacturers made a few changes like installing a floating common negative and semi isolating the chassis from a direct connection to the power line with a capacitor and a resistor. In Canada all of the manufactures did this, in the U.S some companies did and some used the very hot chassis design of your Zenith. I have one American AC/DC set where I am installing a floating common negative, I had to rewire the set anyhow thanks to some previous owner's meddling, and I am concidering doing the same with the Fada model 1001 that also has a hot chassis.
Regards
Arran

[morzh]

Arran

Yeah once I looked at the sch it looked downright scary to me. I would not ever allow such a design to leave my department, lest I be a subject to multiple lawsuits.
What I've figured I would do is I will fix it, make it work, as a part of the collection, and then I will be the only one who will ever touch it, so it will be a demo unit only, a conversation starter, if you will, but not something I will make play for me regularly - after all, most of the sets I have are AM broadcasting radios with exact same band, so.....

[Arran]

Arran

Yeah once I looked at the sch it looked downright scary to me. I would not ever allow such a design to leave my department, lest I be a subject to multiple lawsuits.
What I've figured I would do is I will fix it, make it work, as a part of the collection, and then I will be the only one who will ever touch it, so it will be a demo unit only, a conversation starter, if you will, but not something I will make play for me regularly - after all, most of the sets I have are AM broadcasting radios with exact same band, so.....

Even with the hot chassis sets the manufacturer usually had enough sense to use an insulated back, knobs, and recessed or hid the chassis screws so that someone couldn't accidently touch the radio and a grounded object at the same time. You could modify the Zenith so it has a floating common negative or B-, a little more work but not too difficult. With the Medco (Telesonic) radio I went through my schematic collection and looked for sets with similar circuits and a similar tube lineup for ideas, sets that already had the floating B- like Philco and Canadian RCA, etc. There is no way to make one of these sets 100% safe but there are ways to make them less lethal, and in spite of what some think adding a polarized plug and swapping which side of the line goes to the power switch doesn't cut it.
Regards
Arran